Glad to see everyone is keeping an open mind and realizing that maps can play differently than their own preconceived notions about design. It's also awesome how everyone somehow knows exactly what goes into making an update like this happen, and has the decency to step down from their soap boxes and appreciate it for what it is. This truly is a wonderful place of positive thinking and understanding.


Oh wait....

I'm all for positive thinking... when the maps are actually worth a damn. I'm very open to different designs and styles, but I am not open to glaring spawn issues, abuse-able exploits, and unrefined designs. Dispelled has glaring spawn issues, Unearthed has some painful exploits (worse than Spire in Reach), and Estuary is flat out not refined enough. Sorry, not sorry.

And on top of that, we still have god awful maps like Basin and Entombed, and somehow Deadlock has gone from being one of the best maps in BTB to being outright ****ing awful. At least on the bright side of things, Recurve looks like it's not cancerous anymore, so I'll take that as a small step forward... With most other changes to the playlist being two massive steps back.

Anyhow, of the three new additions that suck, they each have potential to be solid additions. I'm not dismissing the maps outright, merely stating that they need some serious work, and that's not a bad thing in itself. Should I roll over backwards and be greatful that at least we have new content? **** no! New content isn't something to be content with if the new content is of low quality. It's especially irritating when the new content could easily be modified and fine tuned into something potentially great. And that's what bothers me most... That three of these maps have potential to be something greater than they are, but no one saw the issues inherent to them, let alone pushed for the necessary changes that would make them better.

Dispelled has been posted on here for over 3 months, if you had a problem with the shape/design/aesthetics you could have freely shared your concerns in the post. CTF was tested on Dispelled multiple times with different lobbies and different opinions, if spawning was truly awful someone in the community would have spoken up. The "64 spawn points" is a guideline, almost none of the BTB maps in MM have 64 spawn points on the map, just saying.

I am not going to argue with you any further as it is pointless to talk any sense into someone blinded by rage. If you truly cared about the BTB maps you could have provided feedback to make the maps a better experience in a more professional manner. The way you are behaving now is immature and childish.

Oh and also, I don't think my maps is the highest of quality, I never stated that. I just wanted to make a fun map, nothing more.

And you just lost all credibility there.


Had I known earlier about the BTB task, I would have gladly chimed in then. Unfortunately, everything was kept hush hush till the last minute. Generally, I have next to zero interest in BTB forge customs because the vast majority of BTB forge maps are not enjoyable, and getting together a lobby of that size is even less enjoyable.

The community is full of idiots that don't know jack **** about how the spawn engine works. All you'll ever hear from other forgers is "I had a bad spawn" or "I don't like spawning at XYZ location". Good luck finding anyone that can give you clear concise feedback as to why the engine spawns a player in X location or Y location and how the changes necessary to alter it.

Shouldnt take 6 ****ing months.

Why is assault not in BTB?

'Close quarters/squad BTB' is still conceptually illegal in my eyes but a) Nice to see some effort with 343/community relations and b) we can eventually lead to making BTB the most fun, populated playlist again.

And again, what needs to go or get less push is this idea of BTB maps being 'very large arena maps'. BTB, back in MY day, was a playground for vehicular madness, though still strategic and stimulating.

Really liking the visual overhauls, especially on Entombed. Not a big fan of dispelled or estuary, and I haven't played on the other two new maps. Boulevard continues to be the best BTB map.

Squally you say this as if you're new to ForgeHub?

But as for the refresh feedback. I've played just about all these maps quite a few times and they were play-tested a lot. I think one of the biggest, if not the biggest problem is that the new community-made maps were made for AR/Magnum starts and the Battle Rifle really negatively affects the gameplay.

Let's be honest Magnum starts or not, Spire v2/Unearthed shouldn't be there

YOOO WHY DON'T WE DO SPIRE LIKE BUT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE BONEYARD11!!!1. Like seriously, of all the maps to take gameplay inspiration from, why Spire? Can someone do a Boneyard-like map? Please?

(Also like seriously it's been on the table for months and just NOW you guys decide to thoroughly test Magnum starts!?)

Don't create stipulations or stereotypes. Close Quarters BTB maps can be a blast. Judge each map individually for what it brings to the table in terms of gameplay expirences. I do agree however, the fourmlaic "squad" designs that play extremely similar to eachother need to go.

I don't want to ruin my chances of getting my BTB map in by talking negatively about some of these maps, but its quite befuddling to me why the playlist maps weren't completly stripped and refueled. (I'm guessing 343i being stubborn, truly hope the cartographers werent advocating this)


You can put a fresh coat of paint on a lemon , and that may make it look like a sport cars, but its still gonna drive like a lemon. Please cartographers, let's get rid of the lemons.

Actually testing Magnum/AR starts has been going on for as long as you've said it's been on the table. It's just getting more attention now.

Seriously, the following maps HAVE to go!

• Basin
• Entombed
• Altar (sorry Wyvern)
• Eagle Square

These are all maps I refuse to play on at this point. They're god awful. At this point, I don't even want to venture into BTB, even with a full party of friends, because there are so few decent maps.

Thanks for the correction, guess I just read it incorrectly.

Actually, every maps that's been put into BTB was tested for Magnum starts. Even the initial release ones were tested with Magnum starts internally before the game even came out.

Halo 4 had decent BTB maps. Why haven't any of those been remade?

DarkPrince remade Meltdown and Exile. There have also been remakes of Blood Gulch and other classic maps.

emphasis on decent maps. Mostly the DLC ones

Perdition would be great for BTB Strongholds
Shatter was a decent 6v6 Flag map
Wreckage was an amazing 5v5 Flag map
Outcast was great for Regicide but I don't expect anyone to remake that, especially since we don't have the gametype
Daybreak slayer was alright too

We've got Colson's Scavenger which in my opinion, is one of the best asymmetrical maps I've ever seen.

Also, I don't understand why this final statement I've read tons of times. The majority of the criticism claims for new stuff, 343i brings new stuff, but it plays in new unique ways, non-mainstream patterns, so now they want remakes because vintage is better. Oh, but they don't want the old Halo, they still want "new" stuff.