Your Computer

@Oli, save up a bit of money and get the ASUS P8Z77-V instead of the LX. It's only about $40 more and it has more features.

Also, provided you use a genuine copy of Windows, use Microsoft Security Essentials. Voted one of the best anti-virus software out there, and it's absolutely free if you have a genuine copy. I've used it for a year now and I've had no problems.

 

Avira is another solid choice, and it's what I use currently. Kaspersky isn't what it used to be unless you pay for it, but no one wants to do that.

Peg, I was never making an argument. I generally offer advice on acquiring a good computer in such threads, and I only advised against buying a Mac when someone brought it up because it's an ignorant and wasteful thing to do. That's why I found it funny that you "bit" in the first place; I don't feel I've said anything worth arguing about.

 

BJ, I already have my computer

Besides which, all it offers extra is 6.1 surround sound, two USB 2.0s swapped for USB 3.0s and then a BIOS flashback card and one extra HDMI out for the onboard graphics.

If it is £30 more, then it would be worth either/and getting a USB 3.0 PCIE card and a dedicated sound card.

 

Kaspersky doesn't have the rootware that Norton does, so that's a plus. Rebates are not assured, though, and it's easier to assume you'll never get them. Either way, there are better free options out there.

 

I'd say that's making an argument.

 

Just the disable button?

 

Maybe on my old computer where memory leaks were common towards the end of it's life. CPU slowdowns happen obviously when running other stuff, but I couldn't say there is any problem with MSE compared to another anti-virus.

As for a gaming option, I've never had to disable MSE while playing games. it may ask you to add a game to the exemption list the first time you play, but after that there is never a problem.

I would recommend trying MSE first, seeing as it's a free download off of the Microsoft website. If you like it, you have a free anti-virus. If not, you can always get rid of it and use something else. It's nice having that option open.

 

I'd say it just personally offends you for some reason.

Insane, I used to run Avira on my 7 year old laptop, too. It isn't very demanding, and most anti-virus programs shouldn't be. Firewalls are a different story, but you shouldn't need one anyway.

 

Gotta love having Norton take away all of my CPU when playing games.

 

I'd say frustrates more than offends, who do you seem to take such baseless offence at people who use Macs for that matter? You've classed an entire brand as wasteful, and those who buy them as ignorant. I've presented countless points which reason through why certain people feel justified in using them, yet you've failed to put forward a single reason to justify your claim, which is particularly lovely considering you're the one calling other people ignorant. Fair enough you're entitled to your opinions, but when you put them forward in a thread like this then fail to even back them up with any semblance of justification you're likely to invite, at the very least, questioning. Sorry I find people who make needlessly inflammatory posts and then act deliberately obtuse a little frustrating.

Bloo: I've become really sold on MSE as well, been solid for as long as I've used it on personal machines and quite a few of the boxes at work use it. I still need to track down a decent one for Mac. I used to use iAntivirus until Norton bought it and crapified it, trying Avast now but it's pretty in your face and they've employed the annoying practice of auto-installing a Chrome plugin, doesn't really do much to win my affections.

 

You're just put off because I'm blunt and straightforward. I haven't called anyone here ignorant, and my generalizations aren't as sweeping as you claim them to be, as they were specifically aimed at Insane in the beginning. I made exception for the small niche who can use Macs appropriately, but most don't, and I'm surprised you even think that's a point of contention. It isn't.

 

If I've put words in your mouth then apologies, that was genuinely not my intention. I just didn't see the specifically directed nature of your criticisms even after I entered the discussion. I agree about your criticism of the Retina display MBP, both in terms of whether the screen serves a practical purpose at this stage and whether spending over £1700 on the lowest spec available on that basis of this screen is sensible or not. But past that I read your posts as simply saying they were pointless in general, I wasn't trying to twist your words, just working with what I had:

Stuff like this is at best ambiguous, in terms of whether you're saying that it'd be an ignorant and wasteful thing to do for this specific person, and unless they can claim good reason for doing so, or just that buying a Mac is an ignorant and wasteful thing to do in general. Ambiguous isn't quite the same as blunt.

And as I said before, past your allowances for people who use Macs "appropriately" (ie. in a professional setting which basically demands it), I still don't feel that calling the decision to buy one ignorant and wasteful is justified. Even without professional application, your assertion that "it's more like paying several thousand more for an identical car just because of the brand name" is what I take issue with. Whether this justifies itself in terms of your preferences or not, people can also be paying for a high build quality, receiving support that is, at the very least (and regardless of what you think about Genius advice) a good investment for replacement and repair, and with nice interface features not true of any Windows machine. Also factor in the cheap as chips OS costs, and I'm just saying that you're still being reductive. These are things people like, and are clearly happy to spend their money on in many cases, and I don't feel that's any more arrogant or wasteful than plenty of other high end brands in other sectors.

I'm not denying that some people buy them purely because of the label, not even understanding the differences, but I disagree with your idea that without a technical requirement to have one in terms of what basically amounts to media production you automatically fall in to that bracket. This focus on Macs, as if the majority of people who actually own a PC made an informed decision when buying one and didn't do so at least ignorantly, and quite possibly wastefully as well, is just a bit of a dead horse tbh.

 

Let's be honest, you were defensive well before I made that "wasteful" post. You seem more bothered by the fact I'm advising against it more than anything. I am absolutely being reductive, as there's no sense over-complicating the issue; even with all of the subjective perks you boast as well as a few welcome features like Retina factored into the cost, it's still a bad buy. I'm well aware people are willing to spend money on whatever makes them happy, but I'm also aware that people often don't know or care what they do with their money, and you ought to know that, too. I'm certainly not going to encourage that mentality.
There hasn't been any mention of other alternatives to Macs that are also wasteful, but I'd be just as quick to advise against those (Alienware, PC customization sites, buying Windows, etc.). There's no reason to assume I'm singling out Apple of my own accord; it was brought up in the thread.

 

Because what you were saying amounted to the same thing. Why would I be bothered about you advising against it when I've openly agreed with you about A) it being a bad buy in the case which originally brought this discussion up and B) how people buying them for nothing more than the name is a notable phenomenon, if not as universal as you imply. I argued precisely because you were being reductive and making tired, shortsighted criticisms.

Being reductive and over complicating the issue aren't the only options. There's always, ya know, taking a balanced approach to discussion.

Why do you keep saying subjective like it somehow hurts the argument of this as a benefit? Yeah, it's not an objective, on paper benefit since it doesn't apply to everyone, but for the people who it does apply to it's just as fair a justification to spend money as a better component would be to anyone else. Idk, you just haven't really made any points, you just keep saying it's too expensive over and over without ever justifying it.

You're conflating two of my points here. One is that some people will buy Macs because they don't know any better and refuse to even think about it, and an entirely separate point was that people spend money on things you don't personally see as worth it, but still know precisely why they're spending this money and what they're getting from it. In terms of the former, I do "know that," but don't try to make out that this means I extend the same verdict to the second one too.

I've mentioned Alienware and Vaio, parallels which you've failed to even acknowledge, let alone address. I used to be just as critical of Alienware and Mac alike, and to a certain extent I'm still critical of Alienware. Despite their good support and really nice build in many ways, I've heard more issues come up with their hardware than I'd personally expect from machines of that price, but ultimately I haven't had enough experience with them to say confidently what I think. Sorry, you still just sound like someone who can't wrap their head about pricing computers on anything other than raw component spec.

 

If you agree with me about what I originally said, why are you making such a fuss? Perhaps you're mistaking tired criticism for common criticism, because that's all it is.

Because it's even it's even better to having something with objective and subjective benefits? As for price, I thought that was a given. Do I really need to give you links pointing out the difference in price between Apple components and regular ones? It's common knowledge at this point, even the butt of jokes by way of comparison pictures on larger internet communities; surely you've been around long enough to see all the internet bitching throughout the years.

I've been addressing you as sparsely as possible because frankly, I was never talking to you. You've been reacting to things I'm saying to other people as if you and I were having a discussion, but we weren't. If you want to have a more in-depth discussion about whatever exactly is ruffling your feathers, we can do that some time, but that was never my goal despite your persistence.
To put it another way, I would likely give you a different recommendation than I would for whoever else may be looking for advice, and that's because you have a different set of needs and wants. I wouldn't expect you to be as reckless with your money as other members might be, and I'd likely make different suggestions.

 

I have two things against macs, and your wall of text won't scare me from speaking. I have common sense, so you shouldn't have to bash me. I have a problem with the brand, because they overprice everything. I understand that there are some PC manufacturers who do the same thing (probably not on the same level though). The other problem is the OS. The fact that they don't open the OS up for modification, and you can't build a computer and use their OS. This makes their entire brand like a monopoly. They can set their prices whatever they want them to be, and anyone who must have the OS will buy it. Fortunately people have experimented with it and it is possible to build you own "hackintosh" It's just way more difficult than it should be.

It is this mentality that bothers me, just like software patents. In terms of technological progression, you must move at their pace. Sure not everyone who buys a mac is ignorant of the kind of market they are buying into, but I believe it is the majority. People who have made this argument are not wrong, but they can't make assumptions about someone just because they bought a mac. Honestly what is not to like to the average consumer? Sleek aesthetics, lightweight, easy to use OS (on the level they use it), good warranty etc... Tons of things that would appeal to the average consumer. There is just one problem. Big price tag.

People have been known to spend lots of money on really stupid ****. Most people aren't going to look for something that's more worthy of their money. Cough* cough* ignorance cough*. Then there are things like hype, advertising, and others that influence a products success. You can argue with me all you'd like... but I doubt someone would buy a mac if they knew they could get a better system for 600 dollars less. This isn't a PC vs. Mac thread. Nobody can deny that Apple targets ignorant people, more specifically teenagers who don't know what they are buying, and who will beg their parents to get it for them. The people who hop on the bandwagon, they are a key part to their success.

Now can we bring the discussion away from this?

kthxbai.

 

Well stated, taco. Macs do have the advantage of being easier for someone who doesn't have a clue about computers to use though which can be really important. Just because some of us have edited system32 doesn't mean everyone wants that option.

I'm looking for a new laptop. I know laptops aren't as fast as desktops but the low end stuff I do is enough to need a good processor and plenty of RAM. Any advice?

 

Well what exactly do you do, and just how mobile do you intend to be? I only ask because I overestimated my usage outside of the home when I purchased my laptop years ago, and it ended up sitting on my desk more than anything.