What Are You Working On?

Yea I don't get annoyed dying to an AR, but I get annoyed when I'm forced to use an AR because the map doesn't allow you to use the pistol. If the majority of the map is designed that way, I don't think it's good because I don't think AR combat has enough depth to emphasize it.

In other words, **** Goldleaf.

 

One more thing to build on this discussion. When I had the vision for Trinity and laid it out in an hour or so, I LITERALLY could not believe I made it. To me, it looked like the kind of map that I'd see someone else make and go "Holy **** how did they even come up with this." If you dig through the Trinity thread or even had spoken to me during H2A you would've heard me say MANY times -

"There is no way in hell I will ever top this map. Seriously it won't happen, I still can't even believe I'm the one who came up with this."

Halo 5 came out and I sat down and made Legion, which is literally just a better more flexible version of Trinity scaled for H5 movement/pistol. That's all there is to it. I looked at Legion and went, okay - NOW there is no way I will ever make a better playing map than this.

Then I made Oblivion. Which not only plays better than Legion I think but thematically is much more powerful. The geometry FEELS like what the map resembles, there's unique environments within the map. Creative aspects like the pool-o-porters. Go read the Oblivion thread or watch the commentary; I said many times -

"I literally can't imagine myself coming up with a better raw layout than this. I don't think it will ever happen. I can't top myself again."

And honestly I probably can't top myself with Oblivion, so I looked towards other ways to create maps than just the raw geometry. I looked into the key concept. Lo and behold my quickest development cycle ever bred Arcanum, which will probably never stagnate in a hundred years. Seriously the key is such a flexible concept and plays so well in junction with the rest of shitty H5 mechanics, and that map was a pain in the ass to design.

Can you imagine if I just stopped with Trinity and put out a bunch of cloned Bridgework catwalk maps for the rest of my life? Just thinking about that not only bores me but scares me. Because I am 10x the designer I was when I made Trinity, so I'm excited to think about whatever it is i'll come up with next that tops Arcanum. I can only hope everyone else feels the same way about themself

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 1, 2017 ---

Okay so we agree lol

 

You two (Multi + xzamplez) are both debating design philosophy off of completely separate core values.

Multi = competition
xzamplez = fun

Neither of you will find common ground until you both discuss one or both gameplay aspects independently.

 

No. Fun literally means balanced, competitive, fair, and interesting. The second you have a "fun" map that has a glaring imbalance and someone sits on a ledge and abuses it, it's no longer fun. The moment your frustration turns to not being to outplay the enemy because of the map, you're not playing the player. You're fighting the map. That's not fun.

In a perfect world a player would never have to think about how they're going to address the map rather than out maneuver and outsmart the other player. That's when you have fun.

 

I agree with you on everything after the first sentence. The problem is you are assuming everyone plays strictly competitively. More specifically, you assume everyone finds competitive play fun.

Edit: im not taking anyones side on this argument Im just looking for clarity

 

pvp is inherently competitive.

 

Think about what you're saying right now.

Quite literally ANY map EVER made could be "fun" in a casual lax setting. That's not the point, and that's no merit to judge anything by. Any great competitive map can be played casually and bolster fun. A "casual" map (aka something poorly balanced) can exclusively be played with no thought whatsoever. The microsecond anyone even wants to win a single engagement by abusing something it falls apart and becomes frustrating.


Better yet, think of some competitively balanced maps that aren't fun. Do you have fun playing MLG Amplified? Probably not, but is it because it's competitively balanced or is it because the map is genuinely a boring sack of ****. Probably the latter.

Storm Peaks has every bit of competitive viability that you'll see in Amplified and Onslaught. The only difference is that it's fun to move and shoot on. Think about that. The best maps are competitively and perfectly balanced, and still unique and interesting.

 

Remember guys, there's a thing called "Casual-Competitive", it's what differentiates Team Slayer from MLG.

 

like I said, if anyone wants to join me, i'll be testing anchor in a few minutes
look me up

but only in a few minutes - gotta tweak it

 

Let me know if you guys want in on that ice melting map I mentioned ages ago.

My dumbass left the party open and saved after someone deleted it, so I'm basically back to the drawing board.

Has all the workings to put Arcanum to shame

 

This kinda them vs us mentality for casual and competitive PVP gameplay has always bothered me. People believe that it's only possible to design for competitive play or to design for casual play and that they are somehow mutually exclusive.

To me that's rediculous. You can't treat your players like their incompetent for the guise of trying to design "casually". You have to have more faith in your players than that.

You can design a map that can play well for both a competitive level and so that the casual player can enjoy it as well. A great example of this was High Guard. Unique design. Decent skill floor so the average Joe won't constantly fall off and die. But it can also be really sweaty at times.

Also it's okay to design some maps in a game that have a high enough skill floor entry level that more higher skilled players would have a better time playing it. A great example of this being Oblivion. The average Joe is gonna get squashed and is gonna fall into a death pit a lot, but sweats are gonna love it and even people who aren't competitive will be willing to learn and improve because it still has a ton of interesting elements to it. To me that's better than making a bland map that caters to noone.

 

If we are speaking strictly on map structure, than I agree with you 100% now.

Let me ask 2 more questions then I'm done: if a map is competitive, does that automatically make it fun? If a map is fun, than is it balanced/competitive?

 

I usually try and make sure being aggressive pays off. I like to punish camping and not wanting to move.

 

You can have a competitively balanced map that isn't fun. See, MLG amplified.

Very hard to have a fun map that isn't balanced, just ends up being frustrated

The great maps are the ones that are both crazy unique and superbly balanced AND flexible. You need those to stand the test of time. Very very few forge maps have ever been made that fill this criteria

 

I like to camp.

A hallway, a corner, a tower, a base. Wherever really, I don't discriminate

That being said, not all camping spots are created equal.

 

Campings not so bad when the spot isn't op. Imo there's nothing wrong with predicting enemy movement and taking advantage of sloppy awareness. This is further implemented in the HCS playlist and pro games.

If a spot seems op when I'm building, I'll try and redesign so that the opponent will more than likely turn a blind eye to a certain corner or structure due to a punishing sight line opposite of said camping spot.

A good (and bad) example of this is blue room in Riptide; the area where the dmr spawns has a wide window and long sight lines towards beam rifle and h2 br, but is complimented by a pillar at the doorway. I can't count how many times I've spawned in the dunes when the other team has mid/blue control, and easily snuck in through the door and behind the pillar; the enemy ALWAYS pushes dunes first off of respawn, blue heavy, and each time I give at least one of them a back smack before regrouping with my team at dunes or escaping bottom mid to start pushing the flank.

Tldr;
Camping can be op just like anything else, but is a valid strategy OPTION. In no way am I suggesting that camping a whole match will likely bring you that W (unless you're with an HLG team). It can be used tactfully.

 

HALO 1 IS SO GOOD

 

Ur just saying that because ur a multi lapdog