I always felt like doubles objective was so stupidly over punishing. You get a double wipe and then you sit there and collect 20 free uncontested seconds as they respawn and walk to you, both oddball and hill felt like this. Flag if you don't stop them pulling it on your first push and they wipe you and your teammate then by the time you both respawn and get to them it's basically a cap. Everything is so insanely dependent on the first push.
I love objective gametypes and doubles objectives are very difficult for an opposing team to come back from even a small deficit like Multilockon said. In order to balance them it would be better to have practically an instant respawn and even forced spawning closer to the objective in play. It would be nice to have some variety in a 2 vs 2 playlist though, even if that's better map cycling due to one time power-ups or weapons periodically, not the same repeat weapons and generally two things at the exact same time on the map. The current maps allow people to hold a primary area of a map without really having to move often. The rig - you can hold down the back corner section and move forward for the sniper and camo. Plaza, you never really have to leave the Sniper rifle corner aside from grabbing overshield which is top mid (it should be placed at the bottom of the map)... Also if there is ever an overshield on a map, there should be a plasma pistol on that map every time to balance it. halo 5 would be a lot more fun (doubles) if it had forced players to move around the maps to gain an advantage and also if not every single doubles developer map was a generic offshoot of midship.
Because in both time based objectives and flag the beauty of the gametype is in the moment to moment struggle. Every second on Construct KOTH 4s is exciting because you get pushed from several directions and it stresses team composition (which is the bread and butter of 4s). The moment to moment is fun and the only "free" time is after a 4man wipe which rarely happens, and if it does then that team earned that ****. So they can enjoy their free ~15 seconds. In doubles it's pretty much ALWAYS a team wipe, because you're stupid if you push alone. You lose the encounter? Add 20 seconds to their score. You die again? Add another 20 seconds. It almost feels round based at that point because you're shooting for the next fat pocket of seconds you can sit there while the other team respawns. Not to mention in doubles you're rewarded with X seconds of free hill time just about every encounter while in 4s you're also rewarded with that same amount IF you pull off a miraculous team wipe. It's really overrewarding and a huge chunk of the game is just sitting there waiting. Nothing moment to moment. It's even WORSE in oddball because you can move the objective with you and not worry about chasing it to contestable points. I used to boost 50s in Halo 3 doubles and every time Guardian ball came up I almost wanted to quit because I wasn't capable of playing nearly as bitchy as other teams. And if you're going to lose the ball? Just play ball and jump off with it so it appears top mid and you contest off the respawn, it's just really silly. Especially when you needed about 2 And a half minutes of ball time to win and sometimes a single set up would take about a minute to break if they're in S2 or Blue Room, and then they cam just jump off. The whole match gets decided by 2 maybe 3 encounters the majority of the time. Same with flag. In 4s, it's a journey to get it across the map being a man down (at least classic Halos without flagnum) and it took a lot of team comp. In 2s? If you die when they're in your base it's pretty much a cap for them, enjoy spawning and chasing them across the map without enough firepower or angles between your 1 teammate to kill them in time. I already said I hate 4s for slayer, I think it's a stupid gametype. But it does really well in heavy team comp gametypes like Flag, or in Hill with your entire team guarding while the other entire team is attacking. It uses the entirety of the player count to focus on 1 spot and you get really cool team setups and wipes and which is also why strongholds blows. It takes the 4v4 player count and splits it between 2 or 3 objectives so you lose all the POTENTIALLY cool benefits of the higher player count. It's just like 1v1 or 2v2 hill at that point but you don't even need to stand in the hill. That's also why btb strongholds is way more interesting, the player count means the fight for the zone is epic and chaotic. That's also why I like Hill more than Flag. It focuses on one objective where flag is on 2. Also the scenario where each team has the other teams flag and the flag literally just needs to wait in the base and sit there is so stupid. I've sat there for 9 minutes straight the other day on regret. So ****ing dumb. Tldr 4s hill is the best
I see what you're saying, and you're def not wrong, but a lot of it can be depends to on the map or movement mechanics as well. If the map is too big then what you're saying is going to happen virtually every time, but if the map is small enough and segmented right, you should be able to consistently challenge hill. The only factor at that point is respawn times, which, if you die, you deserve to not get hill time. If you make a stupid push, and die and leave your teammate alone, he's gonna get team shot and lose 9/10 times. Personally I think 2v2 hill is more competitive. It forces teamwork more so than 4v4. The more players you have, the more people are just dive bombing into the hill to constantly contest it. Obviously you can set up appropriately and have two support shooters, and two people close or in the hill, but the map then has to be bigger to account for that kind of stuff, otherwise each team would only be gaining a couple points for every hill. I just don't think that makes it competitive. I would much rather feel that I earned the hill by wiping both players with a good push and earning some hill time. Not to mention it's interesting to see different pushes by the team that's attacking the hill. In 4v4, especially newer halo titles, it's just a mad dash to get in the hill as fast as you can, and with 8 people doing that, the gameplay just starts to lose an interesting component. Obviously you COULD get the same thing happening with 2v2s, but it's less likely because the gameplay is more controllable by nature with only 1 teammate.
Same gametype, almost a completely different experience. Not going to go into detail because @Given To Fly explained most of it.
That's fair too. I'm a firm believer that a proper purpose built map will make just about anything work. I just like the 4v4 KOTH and one sided objectives. Multi flag is whatever to me.
what if... what if you did breakout koth? say two or three hill spawns per round, each on a 30 second timer, and random spawning order. might slow everything down, but would make for some interesting uses of the existing maps... i can definitely see an issue where both teams would break for one of the hill spawns immediately and just sit the whole time, but i think that might open up more strategies over the course of the round.. idk, just a thought
Multiple hills per round usually doesn't work, because then at least one person is taken out of the action to just stand still on their side of the map. That's why that 7 hill game type in matchmaking, (diminishing hill) is horrible. And in a one life game mode, a singular objective makes more sense anyway, because it will force encounters eventually. That's why Search and Destroy is so great.
mm true true, but I meant like progressive spawning, just in a random order, forcing the action to another part of the map like in regular hill modes
That's just crazy king... but with one life. Realistically that wouldn't work because the round would end before the hill even switches. To get points you have to stand in the hill which makes you a target. And in a 1 life game mode, why would you make yourself a target like that?