I didn't talk to Multi until after the contest. And I had my own opinions. I thought Hangar and Hazard were the most polished maps of the bunch. Were they the best playing? I don't know, before I had the chance to find out, most of the maps had already been eliminated. But my own opinion back then was that our top selections were not truly representative of the best maps, and my concerns were only exacerbated when it was revealed that they'd be selected for matchmaking, and rightfully receive backlash.
I really appreciate what the map is doing the more I've played it. If I had to change the layout, I'd probably add more hard routes up to some of the areas because clambering as a movement option is gay. But I'm completely fine with one way up to each bridge. Maybe I'd have the tele send you to the top instead of the bottom, coming out of some ominous cave. I get why it sends you to the bottom but I think it might have been used more if it didn't. Also, I woulda gone this direction for the art.
Tele sending to the top would just be extremely over rewarding given where the sender is located. I made it low-to-low because it's not supposed to be a counter, it's more like just flipping the battleground. The entire map is based on pushing, and sandbox preferential play. If it jumped to an advantageous position it wouldn't be pushing. All it currently does is open up an option to push from a different low area if you prefer that area. If it helps as a flank, so be it. Same philosophy as the rock really. If it helps out, awesome. If it doesn't, then don't use it. Map wouldn't really play too differently without both the rock and tele. I like the clamber to the high catwalk because it makes it difficult to get to the top. People like to equate that with making it difficult to break top set ups but that's the thing; you don't need to be on the top to shoot the top. In fact you're better off on the bottom to challenge the top. Knocking someone off the highcat is so trivial it's crazy to me that people think it's too strong (I know you don't I'm just saying). All the clamber does it make it harder to get up. But I get what you're saying and I wouldn't be opposed to it; it's not the biggest deal either way. I'm glad you've warmed up to the map a bit more
@xzamplez hey i fixd leejun Because that is quite literally the only ****ing difference between that teleporter and a normal one. And I left out a physical indicator because people like to camp teles when they know exactly when they port. The hallway makes it so people just use it to move and push, not to run. Makes the game more aggressive. But I don't need to explain this because you're already way more knowledgeable than me right. Oh yeah and it looks ****ing stupid.
I'm kind of obsessed with vertical and varied/contrasting play spaces. Speaking of vertical and varied/contrasting play spaces: you know how Stanley Steamer has vertical and varied/contrasting play spaces? Can someone art up the vertical and varied/contrasting play spaces of Stanley Steamer for me? Art up those vertical and varied/contrasting play spaces anyway you want. Anyone want to?
I agree with a lot of your opinions on maps, but this is where I primarily find myself disagreeing with your opinion on what maps are good/bad. I don't know if you mean it to come across this way or if you actually even feel this way, but what I'm reading is that creativity and uniqueness are more important than how a map plays. It's also super annoying to hear someone say that they can easily **** out a great map, but they'd rather make something unique. If you can do it, do it. If you don't care about doing it, don't say you could do it if you wanted to. It's a lame claim.
I made a point not to say what my personal picks were (Besides Orxgens), which is why it's ridiculous that you think you know them. Those maps were based on all of our choices. Do you understand that? I had 25% of the influence if that helps you grasp the concept. Didn't know he received money for both. Good for him. Spawns, balance, flow, lighting, teleporter. In that order. My opinion of the map was 25% of the influence. It didn't make it into the top 10. I clearly wasn't the only judge who felt it didn't belong. Dream On is an interesting concept, but it doesn't play as well as some of his other maps. Therefore it isn't as good of a design. The fact that you mentioned Angst and Hazard in the same sentence as if they share so many characteristics is telling of how deluded you are. You couldn't make a map like Angst, because you don't understand why it's a good map. As long as you have this shallow view of maps, you will continue to push out these forced attempts at "breaking boundaries" that will continue to fall flat. I addressed Malta. EDIT: I'm glad you finally explained the reason behind the teleporter. A decent reason, but I don't think the trade off was worth it. People can still camp the tele if they chose to.
I don't value unique and creative traits more than a well playing map. But if a map isn't unique or creative then it doesn't matter how well it plays because the designer didn't do anything. Why does everyone hate 2 base 2 towers? Because they kick ass and play great, oh wait it's because you don't need to know **** about design to make one because it's a proven concept. That's the same way I look at maps like Purple Reign and Hazard being a tic tac toe board. Anyone could have done that; so why would we reward them with several hundred dollars? I wasn't going to post this but since you asked I designed this last night and laid it out in about 10 minutes without any forethought going into it. Took about an hour to actually forge altogether. I've never actually seen an xzamples map in my life but the single map he has posted is called Angst. I looked at minuscule thumbnails of it on my phone and pretty much understood the kind of map it was. Threw this together as a result. The fact is if I had posted this map ^ instead of Legion I would bet any amount of money it would've placed higher despite the fact that it took 10 minutes of no brain power to put together. It's blocky, generic, and a Reach map through and through. I could build 10 more like this by the end of the day if you want, I just choose not to. @xzamplez @WARHOLIC @a Chunk @A 3 Legged Goat Let me just say that if a map consistently goes to time and is a toggle crouch heaven, it doesn't deserve to win any contest. These are the maps I would've chosen Cobalt Heads Up Someone please explain to me why a map that plays as consistently fast and interesting as this was cut in favor of Hangar, the slowest map in the game. @SgtSlaphead and @Kell Of Scots were robbed Optic Prison Smoke Stack Okay **** Overdoziz but this map is tremendous and shame on all of you for cutting it And if you want something boring Purple Reign I've omitted Legion to remove bias but if you honestly want my opinion I think it would hold up better under stress than any map in the contest.
I dont know about that. Im at a point right now where I understand design enough to make a good map. If you give me a template, I can connect the dots and make it play well. But where i differ is that I want to make great maps, and a great map to me does something unique. They are obviously not mutually exclusive, but its rare that both are achieved, and it takes a lot of time. My maps dont get finished because I either break the limits of Forge, break Halo, or break myself because of how much time it takes. Of course, one could look at anything ive started and probably finish it, but if you pick any two to compare, you'd see that none of them are ever alike because I always try something different. Spellbound, Hereafter, Dreamweaver, Scar, Once Upon A Time, Ashlands, Alchemy, Wanderlust, Blade Runner, Overzealous, Ringworm, Flux, Blast Off- all the gameplay and visuals on these maps js completely different from one another. The only thing stopping them from being done is the extent of my knowledge. Solo has a million maps, but a lot are similar designs. I like many of them and they are mostly high quality, but theyre in a saturated market, one that arguably doesnt translate too well to this game with radar and spartan abilities.
"The fact that you mentioned Angst and Hazard in the same sentence as if they share so many characteristics is telling of how deluded you are. You couldn't make a map like Angst, because you don't understand why it's a good map. As long as you have this shallow view of maps, you will continue to push out these forced attempts at "breaking boundaries" that will continue to fall flat." The only similarity between that is that they're unoriginal. "I addressed Malta." No you didn't you said it had bad spawning and that you wouldn't call it a bad map lmao "EDIT: I'm glad you finally explained the reason behind the teleporter. A decent reason, but I don't think the trade off was worth it. People can still camp the tele if they chose to." If people can still camp it then what's the problem??? You just bitched that it was unreadable because it lacked a defined sender. If you can camp it then that's obviously not the case. So what is it? Regardless you come out on a dead end on the other LOW end of the map, which is why it doesn't matter if people bait the tele. They just come out in an equally shitty spot.
I agree with most of everything you've said except for the recommendation of Cobalt. I think xandrith is a phenomenal forger but I can't seem to get around to liking that map. Heads up is a map that slipped by me. I've never seen it before but damn does that look cool.
I liked Heads Up better when it was small. I played the larger version and I think it's superfluous. I never got around to testing half of the maps though because I had to go away for college orientation for 2 weeks. But this is why I suggested a less opinion based approach to map judging. If one judge likes a map and thinks it should pass on, the others can overrule that and a lesser map can move on based on their preferences. I think that is a highly inadequate system.