Totally didn't realize Halo 3 and Halo 4 were getting their old fileshare maps added as well. Good news. It's such a nightmare to reforge in Halo 3 that you know we lost so many maps because of it. Pretty much the only map I feel I completed in Halo 4 was the only map I completed in Halo 3, lol. I'm still looking forward to have it resurrected without the pain of remaking it and I also look forward to a couple of the other old maps.
What is different about your "squad shooter" designs that supposedly lend itself to H5s gameplay so well. So far the only difference i've noticed is high density geometry. I wouldn't say that design is invalid, though i might say it's inferior, and i think that you are getting way to wrapped up in the nature and semantics of categories
also foges map, even if it's not balenced, is way more creative than any halo disc map that has come out in the past decade, how do you think nade kills map is better lmao
Lets forget everything I said about squad shooter vs arena shooter so we don't get lost in semantics and categories. Apart from weapon mechanics, what are the primary mechanical differences between Halo 5 (HCS) and Bungie Halo's? Sprint, Thrust, Clamber, Stabilize and to a lesser extent slide. All of these are movement options that make the player choose between shooting and using them (with exception of Stabliize). They also allow players to move around maps , and interact with maps in ways that would be impossible in old Halo's. So what are the differences in many of my designs that lend themselves so well to Halo 5 gameplay?? It's quite simple, geometry and pathing that lets players utlilze and maximize abilities (Thrust,Clamber,Sprint, Stabliize) to out manuver, out position and out gun(through object manipulation) their opponents. It's important to note that I don't believe slayer as a gametype suits this game mechanically and if we could do away with it, the true design potential of this game could come to fruition. When I play most community maps, and alot of my own that I've designed in a more Halo esque manner, I feel I'm missing something. I don't feel challenged mechanically moving around the maps, and I dont feel like I can properly utilize the abilities in a way that is stimulating for me. I'd also like to note that 2v2 is sacred and comes with it's own set of rules and ideologies so I'm actually not referring to 2v2 when I speak about my design principals, although that's not to say that couldn't be applied at this player count. This is a hard discussion to have with Halo designers and players as they tend to be naturally biased towards what they EXPECT Halo 5, in there minds a "Halo" game, should be. As for the foge vs nadekill map. That was a joke, don't read into it.
You just have to embrace halo 5 for what it truly is. Obviously you can design a good “halo” map that functions properly without any exploits. Let’s pretend orbital was a halo 5 dev map. Off the top of my head due to its extremely linear design and just the nature of the map there would be nothing “broken” about the map. The map would play differently with sprint but things like clamber and thrust wouldn’t have as much of an impact. The map heavily nerfs the true potential you have to outplay someone with the abilities you are given in halo 5 opposed to other maps. I think what salty is saying is that in halo 5 we are given this next gen car that can fly and has all these cool features to it, however people try and keep it on the ground going 15mph. Forgers are trying to maintain this 15mph “Halo identity” zone when we aren’t even given the same vehicle as before. So let’s say someone challenges me to a race on orbital using this next gen car/vehicle. Each race comes pretty close due to the nature of the course. It’s not that hard of a course. Now what happens when we go on a 115mph course with flying obstacles and things that compliment this next gen vehicles features? Well the race can be close or a complete blowout depending on how well you can operate this vehicle. What I’m saying is that in classic halo we could never bring our vehicles on these crazy courses. Halo 5 is the vehicle necessary to do so and now that we have it we are trying to keep it in this 15mph zone. I personally don’t believe these 115 mph courses for this vehicle have been explored in halo 5. I think high density maps where object manipulation is a good way to reach this 115mph zone. It opens up the skill gap tremendously. No it isn’t “halo” Halo 5 is not halo at all. Sure I’ve made Halo maps for it but I’m more interested now in reaching this 115mph course and seeing the true potential for how meta this game can truly get. If you want constant decision making, being fully engaged, and just brain overload. I recommend Salty’s map Ebola because I think that is the closest I’ve gotten to feeling a 115mph course in this game.
I’ve built all of my H5 maps fully expecting them to play terribly. I just can’t bring myself to design levels for a type of gameplay that I don’t enjoy.
I respect geometry manipulation as a valuable skill to a certain extent, i try to include micro geometry in my maps that players can use to gain just the tinyest ammount of leverage from if they want to. But i don't see how having lots of dense geometry "fully utilises" halos extra abilities to the point where it makes the game that much better. Like it's just another layer of depth that can be added, similar to how teleporters add layers. But even then it depends on how it's executed, like all other methods you could have good intentions when implamenting but then it ends up removing a different layer of gameplay. Dense geometry works really well in controlled segments, but in casa su casa for example it all kind blends together to feel like a jungle gym because of the lack of meanifull segmentation, you can go anywhere from anywhere. This waters down the decision making layer of gameplay and the ability to trap and punish enemy players. I like how the outside of the house interacts with the inside of the house because they are segmented from one another which really makes puts alot of weight on how you decide to infiltrate the building. Fighting outside the building you are just relying on mechanical skill, and fighting inside the building it becomes campy because moving around makes noise which leads to your death. Yeah slayer is inherently broken as a game type, but people really like playing it and idesigning around it's various flaws really helps you become a better deisgner. I can REALY see myself enjoying skme round based, 1 life, defuse/SnD matches on casa su casa, like alot i mean. Because then at least all the gameplay revolves around attacking and defending the house which is the best part about it. there is alot of room for some cinematic gamelay there I think you should just stop using traditional categories alltogether as they're not very helpfull when trying to explain your point of view.
You clearly haven't played enough Casa Su Casa because you most definitely cannot freely move to anywhere from anywhere in combat scenarios. Where you can move and how you can move , is dictated by your teammates positioning and your opponents positioning and how you make the enemy spawn/where you spawn. It is actually quite easy to trap enemy players once you learn how players can move, it's extremely predictedable in this fashion. @SgtSlaphead and @Box Knows can attest to this. That being said, I don't think the map is some golden ideal for my design philosophy. As I said, it was one of my first forays into this design space and many of the choices I made on it were made purely to push the limits of comfort. A scripter created a SnD gametype for my siege gametype and we've had some really intense matches on the map. While it wasn't really designed for it, it ended up playing really well. I know you'd enjoy it so when I come back to H5 next summer will have to get some games on it.
I think what’s most interesting is not that there is new depth in the gameplay that you can design for, but that the new depth is unworthy of designing for. Vanilla Halo 5 makes me cry. However, my quake-y gametype is le very epic and definitely worth building a quick and easy map for.
I think Mythic is in a pretty good spot right now for what it is. The only big guideline for making maps is scaling them for classic movement. For those who want to make 4v4 Halo maps I reccomend trying it out, very refreshing change of pace from default and HCS.
I think you touched on a good point. IMO hitscan is inferior to projectile bullet mechanics and on top of this H5's aiming mechanics are a hot pile of trash. This is one of the reasons why I beleive my design philosophy of ample cover and manipulable/interactable geometry is extremely pertinent in H5 as it decreases the amount of open air gun fights vs standard Halo esque design (which tend to have more open spaces with much less geometry to manipulate). Another way of stemming the bleeding of the aiming mechanic issue is to create maps where most engagements take place outside of RR range. I honestly think Halo 5 (HCS) would have been an amazing FPS(Not Halo game) if you could actually aim in it and came with maps/gametypes built for what the game truly is. Mythic solves the aiming issues and non-Halo issues by both removing the abilities and replacing the magnum with the H2 BR which has so much AA and Magnetism that aiming actually feels good, easy, but good. Mythic legit feels like Reach 2A to me and is probably H5's last hope at delivering a Halo experience.