I edited my post read it Also, something else I've wanted to talk about was feedback and it sort of ties into the goat thing. When I see a map and someone asks me for feedback, I feel like there are two modes to operate in. One is the "patch" mode where you work with the forger to fix problems and make what they already have better, and the other mode is the "principal" mode, where you basically **** on the forger and question their very foundations of design knowledge. When someone shows me a two base two tower map, part of me just wants to say "just make a different map" because really that's the optimal way forward for this person to become a better designer. If I didn't care about this persons ability level and wanted them to stay ****, I would just patch the map for them and move on. Like there are SO many things wrong with the forgers mindset past just whatever might be wrong with the map at that point. The problem with that is you have to be at a certain point in your development to be able to abstractly discuss these ideas, which is why it frustrates me to think about it. I literally don't know what to say to a new forger other than "make maps for 7 years and then we'll talk" lmao it sounds super elitist but these ideas only sink in if you have the proper state of mind, and that state of mind takes a long ass time to reach. I hope there's an ultra instinct level of design understanding that once accessed will allow for everyone else to catch up without being forced to wade through their own garbage for 7 years, but I fear that we'll never reach that level of understanding because their doesn't seem to be anything we can do to force those "a-ha!" moments on people. They usually have to learn on their own accord to really understand.
Miss that OldDat Before he became to big for his Owncap Before he fell into the Devil'sTrap Before he thought his **** was bigger than it was fat.
Most people just want to play their maps and release something. Nobody is going to be like me chasing perfection to the point of starting over when the lighting is the wrong color, but that's because I know when the map is operating below its potential, and I don't want to settle for less than it deserves. Ya my standards are pretty ridiculous, but that self awareness as a designer is an important skill regardless. Many people either don't have it yet, or choose to ignore it, and it's unfortunate because there are a lot of great ideas that don't operate within their full potential. There is nothing I value more than surrounding myself with creative people who can say "start over, I feel like you could do something more interesting." It's brutal feedback that nobody wants to hear after they just spent so much time making something, especially me with how easily I get attached to art. But usually within an a day or so, i'll start to think of something else and come back with something better, or at least different enough to lead to a new idea that I never would have envisioned. You have to be close to someone though to give that kind of feedback because it can very easily get mistaken for elitism or bias. But i'm grateful to have a group that can give each other praise where it's due and **** when it stinks, because we all want to succeed, and sometimes we need some real talk to get there. I've always been fascinated with the shapes you create on your maps. You would make really great content if you invested that time into them; effort and a willingness to strive for the best is the difference between a good idea being great or just okay. I firmly believe in the "forge fast, fail faster" approach now, but I don't think it's necessary to polish something and get it to playtesting to figure that out. A forge 1v1 is usually enough to say "I don't like how this area feels, so now I can remove it from my list of ideas and try something else. As the saying goes, when you know, you know.
You basically hit the tangent of an idea in a book that I was reading yesterday - the ‘quantum realm’ as you put it is all the **** that’s possible, and Man (the artist) pulls **** together to concretize a concept(s) ‘from that realm’. That’s not to say the realm really exists, but it’s a useful illustration for how design works.
A bit late for the joke, but not even the thottiest of thots would TapDat Edit: Ooo, another one: I'd bet money that he's related to Sisyphus because he PushDat map forward only to have it roll back to square one. Eh? Eh? I'll see myself out.
Looking back i still don't disagree with my review, the map was the best for the longest time. Even though it is a triangle and alot of the engagements happen on it's corners across flat uninteresting runways. Also os room is abusable, hog the key and sit in the back keeping an eye on the bridge while your other teamate sits on OS. Also there are tons of nerdy spots around the map to hide, but that's not a big deal you can do that in almost any map. The lanterns are also bad for the map because they are essentialy cylinders that players can hide and peak shoot from behind and in order to counter some of the cheaky angles you would have to clamber up to them. But still, those problems don't outweigh how awesome the key-door meta is, so they are negatable. And that's one reason why i'm better than you, i can recognise all those problems and still be honest about the design AS A WHOLE. But it's okay man i know you struggle with having to be the best in your own head and you are salty so i don't take any of this personaly
"Also os room is abusable, hog the key and sit in the back keeping an eye on the bridge while your other teamate sits on OS" This was actually my biggest concern that I constantly brought up during testing but it's not a hard setup to break. W/o powerups, even pressing 2 players on the swing lantern will press one player up the stairs until death or port. With powerups, you can stack a double damage boost to outweigh the OS that spawns in there to single nade kill them, 3 shot pistol, .5 sec sentinel beam, whatever. Rockets also spawn outside the room. REGARDLESS, the version used for the Forgehub tourney on my bookmarks called Forgehub pro has 2 tweaks. I raised the pillars in the center of those room a few inches and it exposes the players feet on the stairwell, and I covered the little 1 foot nook in the corner. Was like a 10 second "fix" for a problem that wasn't even repeatable. But hey, I'll give you the same challenge I give everyone - play Westin and I on the map and if you can succeed in camping in OS room I'll concede. "The lanterns are also bad for the map because they are essentialy cylinders that players can hide and peak shoot from behind and in order to counter some of the cheaky angles you would have to clamber up to them." This literally makes no sense. "And that's one reason why i'm better than you, i can recognise all those problems and still be honest about the design AS A WHOLE. But it's okay man i know you struggle with having to be the best in your own head and you are salty so i don't take any of this personaly" To be honest I don't care what you think man, I never have because you'll never hear me say I'm the best at anything. That's something desperate people do for validation when no one else gives it to them. I've been on this forum for 11 years and my work speaks for myself so no one here doubts my credentials. Keep screaming from the rooftops how amazing you are though. You can continue to claim you're the best but you quite literally have no work anywhere near the caliber you should to even contest that spot. Your work ranges from completely generic and uninspired, to a blatant rip of my Key mechanic but done horribly wrong. Bloodlet Throne doesn't even work, and I've already provided a working precedent of the map before hand - you had no reason to fail. How can you claim to be the best at anything when none of your work is even original. I pioneered that **** and nailed it first try without even testing the map. You can't even copy it correctly. For someone who thinks they're capable of accurately viewing things you're making quite the fool of yourself. My only problem is how much of an embarrassment you've been the past month here, change your username man I literally don't want any sort of association with you.
Almost every encounter on your version of a key map happens in one long ass hallway, and the so called "key-meta" is nonexistent. One key teleporter quite literally takes you around a corner with a sound queue, so it's honestly just better to sprint and spartan charge. You know you've failed at making the key mean anything when you're choosing NOT to use it without trying to be unexpected. The entire middle room is a mess of clambers, and you even made your own shitty versions of Arcanum lanterns that are awful to play around. The outdoor area is useless because it literally sees nothing on the inside of the map. It's a spawn haven where you'll just proceed to go back and fight in the throne room that looks like a set of plastic props for a disney movie. I don't even think your criticisms of Arcanum are completely baseless, but it's funny to me that you completely failed at making a key experience that was at least as good as Arcanum, after being handed the design precedent, and then have the gall to say "that's why I'm better than you"