I could show you a 1000 forge maps, if it's developer maps you're looking for it'd be more difficult but I don't take that to mean anything considering Koth was only ever taken seriously during H3's pro rotation. Where it was on Construct and for a short time Pit which are pseudo symm/symm. But again, I don't take that to mean anything because I don't think the symmetry of those maps had anything to do with the quality of hill placements. Most of the hill placements were placed where the symmetry didn't exist, like on the bottom landing pad of construct shooting towards gold. Or open street defending from open purple, gold, and closed street. In fact none of them had placed any of the hills in any spot that divided the line of symmetry except the first hill on the Pit was on Custom. Which (I think) proves my point. The symmetry didn't do anything, you just defended your side and shot the other. If it flipped, oh well. Nothing changes. There's nothing that leads me to believe that all the dev koth maps in Halo history could've been better if they were purpose built assyms for the gametype.
Well 2 way symmetry doesn't really exist when there's more than 2 teams now does it. Let alone, no teams.
This all went way over my head lol. I don't even remember 2 team KotH that well on H3. I only enjoyed it solo or in multi team.
While I stopped making symmetrical maps a while ago, for a long time I still found myself forging symmetrical encounters like doors to a room directly across from each other. That's the really boring stuff right there.
So I am pulling up some old inverse sym ideas I had. I think it will be a nice change of pace after I finish the tallest core map in the game.
You really see that in Destiny 2 map design.. the maps are so hard to control and every little move you make has so much weight. OG halo, Destiny 1 and overwatch do map control and flanks perfectly, not too little but just enough.
Well a map is only symmetrical if the lines of symmetry match the player count. AND if the line of symmetry actually resembles the map direction. 2 teams on the Pit. That's a symmetric experience, you're fighting from one side to the other. Nothing changes regardless of which side you're on. 2 teams on Colossus in H2 is rarely a symmetrical experience despite the map being 2 way symmetrical. The fighting doesn't really happen side to side, it happens from the top to the bottom. FFA Koth on the Pit isn't a symmetrical experience because you're not fighting from one side to the next against a fixed team. Look at a 4 way symmetrical map like Warlock. 4v4 on Warlock is a symmetrical experience. 4v4v4 on Warlock is not a symmetrical experience. 4v4v4v4 on Warlock is a symmetrical experience. The lines of symmetry need to match the team count.
I think Overwatch could still learn a thing or two from its' predecessor TF2 at least when it comes to Payload. I didn't realize it until Career had me look at how TF2 alleviates some of the pace issues you see with these maps. The cart path has less blind turns which promotes people playing the scout and flanker roles to push up more quickly rather than being passive and it also leads them to being left out to dry much less. I do think they did it to improve the spectator experience though because it forces people into taking more straightforward fights. Which makes sense considering how brutal the game is to spectate for the average viewer.
the sketch I posted a few pages back was an attempt to try and fix the fact that strongholds usually get one central SH that gets naded to hell and is a complete death trap. perhaps a good way to avoid the problems you point out with symms is that you could start out with some symmetry but them intentionally try to break the symmetry, without putting game objectives in the central part of that map? (genuinely looking for solid advice because if I get very far with that idea, I want it to suck less - thanks)
well to avoid people saying your map plays like a donut by not having central hill you should probably think heavily about how you want people to rotate around your map.
Simply put, you cut your maps depth in 1/2, and possibly even 1/4 depending on the kind of sym you have
By this definition every a-symmetrical map is always twice or four times as deep as a symmetrical map.
Depth is not the right word. I think some of the 1v1 maps that were in the contest prove this as there are plenty of symms that have more depth that even 1v1's that are symms. It does however make it easier to learn a maps layout but that doesn't mean the map lacks depth. Though a symmetrical map only at the maximum requires you to only learn 2/3 of what an asym is it doesn't mean that once the map is learned that the strategy or meta for the asym. is as deep as the sym. It does however increase your chances of it having more depth though.
I don't think the ratio is that simple or clean cut, just know that youre not doing yourself any favors by repeating encounters
Yeah I was thinking about going into detail on the number of possible ratios but decided not to. Because some of them are debatable. I am kind of upset that this 50% **** is still something people believe. I spent like a good 3 months in Halo 4 explaining to people that it isn't that simple.
I guess the big question is, how do you ensure that three different objective items such as strongholds, extraction points, multi-flags or anything else, have equally defendable and attackable areas without making each of those areas similar in geometry? if you place one up higher ,doesn't it then have the high ground and other ones are weaker positions? I guess that's the art of design... how to make things equal without being the same? (also the goal of society, but people don't seem to understand that...)
when designing a map around koth based gametype look at every area as it's own individual area with strength and weaknesses. They do not need to be the same strength and weaknesses but the strength and weaknesses need to interact with the strength and weaknesses of the other areas so its' strength play into a weakness of one area while its' weaknesses play into the strength of the other areas. Also extraction is played with 5 points.