Anyone here able to shoot a few tips on forging? I know the techniques and all that, i just dont really know how to use them. Ive made two considerably bad maps, and idk how to improve my forging skill. Ive seen the most freaking amazing maps, and idk how to do anything close to what ive seen, Im good at halo, but so far forging isnt my thing I came here to learn, and really i havnt learned much.
A comprehensive and collaborative guide to map design - by forgers, for forgers However extensive the forge community is, the one thing I've noticed that the community needs (especially some of the newer members) is a comprehensive guide to map design. There is the Quake thread, but it has gone fairly unnoticed, and, while useful, a Halo 3-specific map design thread would probably be much more widely viewed and used. I've taken it upon myself to create this thread. While I am laying out the groundwork today, this thread will be forever changing and evolving as more people contribute to the thread and forge itself changes. Before creating any map, it's VERY important to lay out a design for the map. Maps planned in advance are infinitely better than those made as they go. Draw up your map on paper, or use a program. Google Sketchup is probably the best program for something of this nature, as it was designed for architectural designing. Map influences More often than not, maps are designed with other successful maps in mind. While there are a handful of completely original maps out there (Deathstar's Unleashed comes to mind), most maps have at least a few elements of successful maps from either Halo:CE, Halo 2, or other games like Unreal Tournament and Quake. This is visible in the way that most 2-base maps seem the same. They all resemble Midship because of the 2-base, 2-tower design. Lightz probably describes this the best. Quote: Originally Posted by HITtheLIGHTZ Right now even a lot of the "creative" maps and sketchups all have this same dynamic. 2 simplistic two tower bases with sides that wrap around and usually elevated. This obviously came from the design of onslaught which essentially came from an extremely dumbed down version of midship. As Lightz said, most symmetrical maps are based off Onslaught/Midship. However, there are many other great symmetrical maps that most people tend to ignore. Beaver/Battle Creek is a great functionally symmetrical map that is left untouched, except for the occasional thread whining about how Bungie needs to remake the map. Some great ideas can be taken from it, though - enclosed bases, vulnerable powerup and power weapon locations, and multiple levels. Symmetrical maps aren't limited to getting inspiration from other symmetrical maps, however. There are plenty of good asymms out there that could be "converted" into symmetrical form. For a prime example, take a look at Wheezy's Prisoner-inspired inverse symmetrical design. Symmetrical map design Symmetrical maps are much easier to design than asymmetrical maps, considering you only have to design half of a map. However, the challenge comes with making your map stand out from the rest. The best advice I can give you on this is - there are other kinds of symmetrical maps than 2-bases. While 2-base maps are good for flag, there are just too many of them out there. Make something original - inverse symmetrical, 4-base, full foundry, and no-base maps are infinitely better than the generic 2-base. However, if you REALLY want to make a 2-base, make something different from the Onslaught clones. Goliath, both Hybrids, and Zenith (even though Zenith isn't technically a 2-base) all do a great job at this. Asymmetrical map design Designing an asymm is considerably harder to design than a symmetrical map. However, a good asymmetrical map can really turn heads. The hardest part of an asymm is making it so that each of its parts balance out. Maintaining balance between the different parts of your map is very important. If you don't get what I mean, take a look at Lockout, one of the more popular 4v4 asymms out there. For each position on the map, there is a balance for it. S3 is balanced by B3, top lift is balanced by library, B2 and B1 balance S2 and S1, and so on. Each part of the map has a counter. This is the problem with many of the Bungie-made asymms in Halo 3. For example, take High Ground. There is no accessible counter to the tower where laser spawns, making the entire game an uphill battle, with the team not in control of the base spawning beach and rushing the base while the team in control of the base sits there and gets comfortable. From a competitive standpoint, asymmetrical maps, when correctly designed, are the best kind of map. More routes, more options, and more of the map to learn (a whole map vs one half) make it so. Take a look at some of the more competitive shooters, namely Halo:CE and Shadowrun. Halo had a grand total of two symmetrical maps used for competitive play - Derelict and Wizard, three if you count the functionally asymmetrical Battle Creek. The best maps were, by far, asymm, though. If someone says "Halo 1" you automatically think of maps like Prisoner, Damnation, Hang 'em High, and Chill Out. All asymms, and all VERY good maps. Unfortunately, the only decent Bungie-made asymms in Halo 3 are Guardian and Blackout, and both are essentially Lockout-based. Now take a look at Shadowrun. There are literally no symmetrical maps on Shadowrun. The closest you get is Pinnacle and Nerve Center, but both of those are highly asymm as well. Why? Because Shadowrun was designed for competitive gaming. The gameplay mechanics, maps, and weapons were all designed with competitive play in mind. Lobby is perhaps one of the best asymms I've ever played on in any game, only topped by a couple of CE's. Elevation Many subtle elevation changes are a good thing. If you look at maps such as Prisoner and Midship, you will notice that in a platform to platform battle, two opposing players will rarely be on the same plane. It makes gameplay much more interesting when your map is very multileveled instead of ground level, box height, and one and a half or two box heights. Quote: Originally Posted by -NaStY- One of the most important things to remember when making a map. You always need variation in the Z axis. If you ever find yourself with a long, straight walkway or corridor, consider changing it to ramps up and down. If you can cut down the line of sight so that people aren't fighting from miles away, it's probably a good thing. Also think about platforms that are "looking out" at each other. If there's a line of sight between them, you'll probably want to put them at different Z heights. You want to make sure that your level is played in 3 dimensions, not 2. Once again, more levels is better. Few foundry designs actually incorporate this very important design element. One really good example is Xyience. This has a lot to do with the fact that it is Damnation-inspired. Dammy is an excellent showcase of the subtle elevation changes in a map's geometry that lead to good gameplay. Geometry flow When I say geometry flow, I don't mean how your the actual map flows in gameplay (although that's important too, if your map has a good design behind it, it will attain flow naturally). I'm talking about the actual geometry being smooth and clean. Nasty can probably say this better than I can. Quote: Originally Posted by -NaStY- One less recognized piece of making maps is consistency. In ever map you will have tunnels, walkways, or paths that take you here and there. It is important that you keep these walkways smooth and uninterrupted. Nothing ruins the look, feel and flow of a map more than failing to do this. There are a number of don'ts here. Don't make people jump. Let me re-iterate. Don't make people jump! It's bad map design. The only time you can break this rule is if you have a power-weapon or position that you want to make extremely dangerous. Examples are Chill Out's Rocket spawn and Wizard's top center. Outside of this type of conscious decision, the map should smoothly move up and down to where it needs to go. It will help you in the long run if you are forced to fit ramps between various areas, because it will likewise force you to keep good distance between your map elements. Don't lie dumpsters next to every box-height platform. A dumpster jump-up is by definition a piece of un-continuous walkway. If you want to let people up to a place, make a ramped walkway to it. People should be jumping from continuous element to continuous element in a perhaps unforeseen connection. Keep the walking space the same. Remember, we're talking about walkways, not rooms. In a room, it's fine to condense the movable area as you move to the edges by adding doorways that channel people through. But if you have a walkway, which by definition connects you to different parts of the map, its width should stay constant. Don't randomly widen it and then contract it without good reason, because you create hiding spots and bad aesthetics. A strong width for a walkway is, conveniently, the width of a box. For a more treacherous walkspace, bridges are fine. Try not to modulate straight between these two widths, because the result looks sloppy. Let them each be their own surface that is continuous until it meets a larger area. A good example is on Mecro. Notice how the Rocket S Curve is bridge length, but garage (under window panels) has a box length walkway. To resolve, there is a much wider lookout hole that is wider than both. In short - don't make unnecessary jump-ups, don't take shortcuts to replace ramps with jump-ups (unless budget forces you to do otherwise), and keep your geometry looking consistent. Connectivity and routes One thing I've noticed in quite a few maps is the relative isolation of the different map areas. One thing that is apparent in most successful maps out there is that there aren't "free-standing" parts of the map. It saddens me when I see maps that have potentially good structures, but none are connected and they're just kinda hanging out there. Always remember that a good map is more than the sum of its parts. Something that ties in directly with connectivity and map flow is the routes around a map. It's a good rule of thumb to have at least three routes to any given point on a map. In some cases, two will be fine if you want to create an uber power position. One good example is Guardian. Take a look at S3. While it may appear that you can get to S3 from a lot of places, the routes bottleneck at top mid and the curved ramp from S2 to S3, barring a godly S1-S3 jump. Because of the limited routes to the area and high elevation, S3 is a power position. Of course, these alone aren't enough to make a good power position. LOS are very important too, but I'll get into that later. Some notes on access routes by Deathstars. Lines of sight Simply put, lines of sight can either catapult a map to top status, or they can absolutely murder a map. Basically, when I say good lines of sight mean you can't see everywhere from everywhere else. If you're at point A, and you can see points B, C, D, and E, that's not a good thing. Break down your LOS so that you can only see Points B and D. One thing that frustrates me is when people say that you can't effectively reduce lines of sight on a Foundry map because of limited items. In reality, you can't effectively reduce lines of sight on a symmetrical map. Even on top symmetrical maps like Amplified, Lockdown, and Onslaught, there are line of sight issues. Zanno probably said what I'm trying to say the best. Quote: Originally Posted by Zanno I think Asym is the way to go on foundry, because the object limits make it too difficult to design a map with adequately designed firing angles, not to mention how difficult it can be to perfectly mirror something. The only symmetrical maps I've seen with minimal cross-map LOS are Goliath, Triumph, and Zenith, but even these have several bad LOS that don't play to the strengths of the Halo 3 BR. Asymmetrical maps, on the other hand, are better for line of sight issues. Don't believe me? Look at Xyience and Vendetta. It's arguable that top-to-bottom LOS on Xyience are overpowering, but on a map like that, they're intended to be. Top control is hard to maintain, and you deserve a bit of a reward if you can effectively hold the top. The same thing goes for Vendetta. If you're at top mid, you can see each part of the map. You can also be seen from each part of the map, and, tying in with the routes section, top mid can be reached from every part of the map, making top mid hard to hold but very rewarding. You want to build your map with lines of sight in mind. Always remember that no matter how good your map is, bad lines of sight will RUIN it. However, don't add random signs and doors everywhere to cut down LOS. Your map geometry itself should block the lines of sight from part A of a map to part B. For good examples of this, take a look at Vendetta and Xyience. Either run some 4s on them or run around and observe how lines of sight are blocked. The double box wall at CGF on Vendetta and the top walkway on Xyience are specific examples. Cover and map geometry I'm using Nasty for this one, as there's no way I could put it better than him. Quote: Originally Posted by -NaStY- The hardest concept to understand, the easiest to identify if you're experienced. Beyond all other pointers, if you can grasp this idea then it will guide your element design the best. The best existing forge that exemplifies this is Xyience (Flux). The best Bungie map that exemplifies this (indeed, the best Bungie map period) is Damnation. K, here we go. When making a map and its elements, you want to keep the geometry either chunky or technical. What the hell does that mean? Let's break it down. We've said we want to avoid tight corners, and we want to keep walkways consistent. We've said we want good elevation modulation. We also want to keep things simple. Adding too many paths interacting makes it too confusing to play, and skill gets lost in confusion even for great players. When we say we want to make a map's geometry chunky, we refer to the ratios of its walkway widths and heights, the lines of sight, and the walkway continuity and elevation all at the same time. Essentially, we don't want random crap littered through the map. Make maps, not clutter. There is no such thing as "adding cover" in the way that most people think about it. You can add cover in the sense that you can cut off lines of sight by walling something off, or making a window or railing. But adding cover to an open area should not be done. Your level is your cover. That's why we say that things should be chunky. Geometry should be substantial and looming. Its wrap-around should encompass your view and define your movement. It is not just some stuff in your way. When your chunky map structure is made, with large pieces creating soft angles, elevation changes, and comfortable flat areas where you can catch your breath and look around, your next step is quite different but very subtle. The other half of making the map is the wispy technical pieces. This does NOT mean sticking signs in the ground, or blocking half of a walkway with a door. We already know the latter is wrong because it interrupts walkway continuity. When you're doing this, think about Damnations central area which has narrow girders that connect the chunky top walkway and above shotgun areas. The wispy part of your map is what we're calling technical. The technical pieces of your map should very rarely be open on one end. Almost always, they should connect a ceiling and a floor, or two adjacent platforms. Technical elements are so-called because they require highly technical play to use them correctly. The map cannot be totally covered or made from these elements, because as we said above, the player needs a breather. The general map structure should be simple but elegant. The pieces should strongly define where you can see and where you can't, and define where you must go to see certain parts of the map. Technical pieces are things like thin columns and narrow walkways. You can use them in high-risk or high-traffic areas to break things up and separate the men from the boys. A great situation for a BR fight is to be fighting around a pillar that is just barely wider than a player. This is why Warlock was a good 1v1 map - it had lots of technical fights because of all of the narrow columns. Think also (you guessed it) of Damnation. By angling yourself you can use the column as cover when the enemy fires, then open the FOV for your firing. Great players can put even good players to shame in this environment, and you get some amazing 1 on 1 battles this way. If the wispy elements are horizontal instead of vertical, they can act as a difficult walking surface. It should not be a common path that always needs to be used, but rather a place that if you could maneuver well, you could cause some damage. Think big window on Chill Out - easy to fall off, dangerous to be on, not necessary for flow, but delicately powerful when used correctly. A more current example is the columns used on Xyience, along with the two walls right above the OS spawn. A common area of battle using thin geometry. If you've ever played Zanno's Greenhouse, the courtyard makes great use of columns to make OS battles interesting. <3 Nasty Also, check out this post by Deathstars with pics and an explaination about good structures. Promoting map knowledge This is one thing that most maps lack. I'm not talking about knowing where the weapons or objectives spawn. I'm talking about hardcore knowledge of the map that only comes through playing a map extensively. All of Guardians tactical jumps can be attributed to knowledge of the map, and the ability to pull off these jumps in clutch gameplay situations is not only highly competitive, but extremely fun to do and watch. A lot of things that show map knowledge are subconscious. Take nade points, for instance. Even though there aren't nade points in the way that there were in Halo:CE, there are still quite a few useful nade tricks that a player usually discovers for themselves. You can nade high points from low points after playing on a map for a bit (e.g. nading the top towers on Onslaught, nading street hills from basement on Construct, nading S3 from bottom green on Guardian). More needs to be done to promote these kinds of things. Add in a jump that takes practice, like a 3-part jump from a low point to a high point. On Introspect, there is a jump that takes you from a very weak spot on the map (bottom camo) to a very strong part of the map (top camo), but it requires a very difficult, very clutch jump from bottom camo to a window panel just barely sticking out from the wall to another window panel like the first to top camo. Make a way to nade down a power weapon from a high spot on the map to a low one. The true skill of a player can be shown when they play a competitive gametype on a map that rewards map knowledge. Weapon Placement 2/23/09 - I only now realized that I had forgotten to add my section on weapon placement. I'm pretty smart. Since Tak's post reminded me, I will add in my thoughts on the matter later. Tak's power weapon/powerup writeup. 6/17/09 - Much, much, later. Tak had nothing to do so he reminded me about this section of my guide. I'm not going to add anything on weapon placement, since Tak was spot-on with his analysis, so I'm just going to add a little bit about drop spawns. Drop spawning a weapon helps even the playing field between two different teams by providing a consistent timer for the weapon being drop spawned. For example, a weapon that is on a 150 second timer will consistently spawn roughly every two and a half minutes on the game clock when on drop spawn, as compared to two and a half minutes after the player carrying it drops it. This occurs because when the weapon falls and settles, it mimics the action of a player dropping the weapon. This triggers both the weapon's spawn and decay timer. However, in some cases, picking up the weapon during the drop or quickly after the drop, before it settles, causes the spawn and decay timers not to activate, reverting to the non-glitched system and causing the timers to start when the weapon is dropped. Complicated? Not really. To successfully trigger a drop spawn, you need to drop the weapon in question from a height of around a crate (or half a block large on sandbox). In order to prevent the reversion to Bungie's weapon spawn system (known as dirtying), you need to drop the weapon in question from a height of 3 to 4 crates, 1.5 to 2 block larges (on sandbox), or roughly 2.5 to 3.5 in respawn areas. Drop spawning is not necessary for all weapons. In fact, it was previously only used by MLG for the sniper rifle and rocket launcher. However, it's up to the map creator to decide which weapons to drop spawn. For example, the mauler on the MLG version of Guardian is drop spawned, whereas the maulers on Pit, Amplified, and Onslaught aren't. This is because on a map like Guardian that has many close-quarters situations, the mauler is actually a weapon that most teams try to control, while on the Pit and foundry variants, the mauler is of little use, except in certain limited situations. A good rule of thumb to use is that if a team wants to control a certain weapon, it should be drop spawned. Note that it is unnecessary to drop spawn BRs, Carbines, and grenades. Spawns Spawns are a very, very important part of your map. Without a good spawn system, your map will be considered trash (take a look at the opinions of Amplified among community members). It's nearly impossible to create a perfect spawn system because of the number of factors involved in the spawns of a 4v4 map. However, you can get pretty close. Spawns are 50% common sense, 25% knowledge, and 25% luck. You have to mold your spawns to your map. Place spawns in covered areas, and try not to place spawns too far up high or in a powerful position. It's also a pretty good rule of thumb not to place spawn points near power weapons. There's no real guide when it comes to making a spawn system. You just have to play around with them until you get them right. Useful links Google Sketchup Fritzster's Foundry Sketchup components Lightz' base design thread Nasty's map tips Quake 3 design thread Naptiva's guide to spawns HitmanFluffy's user-friendly Sandbox components (recommended) Fully textured Sandbox components, found by Squidhands
Ho DAY-UM Debo, that is going to be one hell of a thread. Will you be adding more technical stuff to it? Like how the spawn system actually works? (When to use a Starting Point vs. a Respawn Point, Respawn Areas, etc.)