It's that time of year again! Yes, it's Thanksgiving. But a month after that it's Christmas, and what do we hear around so much around Christmas? Advertisements. But I was speaking of the Holiday vs. Christmas Debate. So, what do you like to call this time of year? Be it Christmas-time, Christmas, the holidays, winter vacation, etc. And what's your opinion on the media and society's influence on proper etiquette for what to call this time of year? Do you believe that the media and advertisements are taking the "Christ out of Christmas"? Or do you think that the opposition to calling the season "the holidays" is not only immature, but motivated by xenophobia? Before I get into my little opinionated piece, I'd just like to clarify that I'm Jewish. Personally, I agree with the latter. I see groups on Facebook called "I say CHRISTMAS not THE HOLIDAYS." I don't know why someone wants to display their unwillingness to be inclusive in such a public way. My mother, who I think is somewhat crazy, hates hearing Christmas, Christmas, Christmas all the time, but I really don't mind. It is just a part of the jubilation of the season. That's why I am totally fine with anyone saying Merry Christmas to me (even though my friends almost definitely won't). And I, in return, say Merry Christmas to all of my friends who I know are Christian. But I try to be as inclusive as possible otherwise, so I say Happy Holidays to people I don't know. But there are some people, many people in fact, who don't like people like me to say Happy Holidays. Why is that? Are they blindly following political pundits? Are they just a xenophobe? I'm not sure, but they sure don't care for people like me saying Happy Holidays. My mom used to take calls for Williams-Sonoma/Pottery Barn. Obviously, it would get very busy around this season with many people calling in for gifts. She has told me some interesting stories about people who called in. There are some who couldn't figure how to scroll down the website page, and there are some that were just more rude than thought possible. But one thing that bugged me was that some people would call in, and at the end of the call, the workers were obligated to say "Happy Holidays". My mother would say Happy Holidays and she would sometimes get the response, "No, it's Merry Christmas". I might be wrong, but the "I'm always right" attitude that people take during this season sure doesn't show very much Christmas spirit.
Before I say anything I would like to say that this would be my first legitimate post, I believe in the debates section... First, I would like to say that I think I have quite the same thought of train on this ordeal as you, except opposite religions. My entire family is Christian/Catholic so we've always referred it as to Christmas and always will. Yet, just like yourself I take my own knowledge and consideration into others feelings and simply use my own common sense. I've always said Happy Holidays to people I don't know and to my friends who I know aren't Catholic/Christian and Merry Christmas to the latter. I don't if any one has noticed, but a good majority of people might of realized that I titled my most recent thread "Holiday" instead of Christmas, because I myself understand that there are more than one holiday this time of year. I'd like to quote something that goes along with what I've said....: Just thought that these two quotes coincide with what I was saying. Otherwise, for the other topics that you've stated in your passage I'd like to say that the media and society's influence on proper etiquette differs quite a bit from each other. The media from what I've seen all throughout my life makes it seem like Christmas is the only Holiday. Like for Toys R Us, Walmart, Target, etc they will have the Christmas catalogs when they can be called the Holiday catalogs. There will be Christmas wreaths, trees, lights, and other numerous Christmas related objects decorated through towns and stores. So I can understand how people from other religions can possibly take offense from this but, as long as I've remembered it's always been like this. As for society, I can say at school for the past couple years, Merry Christmas wasn't allowed to be said or some **** like that and we we were forced to say Happy Holidays instead. I found nothing wrong with that, but that can go into an entirely different debate. As for your last question or so, I do believe that the media has taken the true and essential meaning from Christmas. My brothers don't even know the back story behind Christmas and they think of it as a time of year to receive presents, almost as like a second birthday. I personally think that's funny, yet I could care less, but I do indeed understand the essential meaning of Christmas and not just gift giving. /end rant
Being an Atheist that celebrates Hanukkah with a Jewish Family who have a christmas tree, I never saw this as a big deal. When I was younger- before I became an Atheist- I used to ask my mom why the salesperson at a store would say Merry Christmas to us when we left, being Jewish, instead of Happy Holidays or something... but I don't think it is something that is horrible. The real point behind saying it is that you are wishing the person a happy holiday season and all, so really, no matter what is said, I don't see it as an insult. The only time I see it as a problem is when people do what you described in the OP, and actually feel the need to argue back against what you said to them so as to insert their own religious beliefs into the conversation. Then it becomes an issue, and a bit ridiculous. Also, I do believe I'd like to see the media and television programs start to broaden their range of tastes to include episodes and characters of all faiths and Atheism, because for the most part, everything is predominantly Christian based during the Holiday Season. But that's nothing majorly important... ... ...
I say Merry Christmas because of my beliefs. I don't mean it to be insulting to anyone who doesn't have those same beliefs, as I don't take offense if someone says Happy Hanukkah, etc to me. As for commercials, companies, and other professionals, I think they have to say "Happy Holidays" to protect themselves.
Its tradition to say Merry Christmas even if I don't personaly believe in the foundings of the statement with links to religion but im still gonna say it. Its just a phrase we all use to exspress to one anouther during the winter season. I don't care what people say to me its not gonna kill me if someone says one over the other. Its all the same to me and theres no reason to argue or fight over it lol.
In my honest opinion, Christmas is pretty much bullshit. It's lost almost all of its religious connection. People shouldn't be so insistent that Christmas is the holiday of the season because it's hardly a religious holiday at all.
For some people like me, it is a religious holiday as I always go to church, so I've always called it Christmas without even a thought. However, I do always take into consideration other religions and cultures around me so I do call it the Holiday season when talking to other people. But with my family and those close to me, "Christmas" just seems right to me.
This is basicly what I find it to be. It's like there are two different christmases. The first being the christian holiday and the second being the western consumer version of buying gifts for friends and family. Maybe the second christmas is the Happy Holiday?
I'm pretty sure the "war on christmas" is made up. I may be wrong but I really don't think anyone is actually being told they can't say merry christmas. People just perceive that they are. If anyone actually tells someone that they can't say merry christmas, they are completely missing the point of their own ideas of inclusivenes. No, I think people sense some hostility that doesn't actually exist when they see media or commerical source that chooses not to use the word christmas. These people need to worry more about themselves than what other people choose to do, or about societal trends that they can choose to follow or not to follow. The story always comes up of someone who got fired or something for saying the word Christmas, which is of course idiotic. But if a company does that, it's for the sake of their profitable image, not because they are making a moral statement. Generally speaking of course. Also, I don't ordinarily make blanket statements, but here's one. Anyone who says that the U.S. is a Christian nation is an idiot. Not in my family, it hasn't.
Lawl, I think my Civics teacher from last year said something like the U.S. was founded on Christian beliefs. He was kind of an idiot though, and he always tried to preach his ideals to people while making it seem like he was moderate.
Quick quote from my friend (who is Jewish) (this is off of memory so is not word for word) If you are christian (not doubtful but true christian) and think Christmas is the most important holiday of the Christian Calendar, you are wrong. Easter is the main holiday. Think about it, what does Christianity focus on more, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ saving us, or his birth to a virgin? (That just annoys the crap out of me, being a devoted christian) The groups you see about preferring Christmas over Holidays are not usually simple xenophobes, but merely those annoyed with the current obsession over political correctness. I go to a small SECULAR (they make sure of it, in fact the wikipedia page for us said athiest for months) private school in Texas where every year it has been a tradition to put up a tree in the main area as well as other piney decorations. As of a few years ago, we are technically not allowed to call it the Christmas tree and must say Holiday tree. We cannot even put a star on top. EVERY non christian in the high school that I've talked too thinks this is as retarded as christians think it is... So thats where I'm coming from... You gotta admit it, modern society revolves around the economy. They holidays that are the best for business are those that appear the most important. So Christmas, the arguably largest commercial holiday, takes the top of the list. Hannukah comes next, but statistically doesn't come close. Quick summary: Preference of Christmas over Holidays is mostly aggravation toward political correctness and not xenophobia. Christmas dominates for solely the commercial benefits.
This time of year holds a lot of Holidays, and it really isn't a debate much. We call the time of year "The Holidays" because it contains holidays fore many different beliefs. Although, it does make me angry that Christmas is becoming Xmas and no one is saying anything, and that Thanksgiving's teaching has been so jacked up people don't even realize it's a Christian holiday anymore. Yesterday I saw a short my little brother was watching, the characters of Madagascar in some "Christmas" special. Never did they mention Jesus's birth, the whole dang point of the holiday, it was about "saving Christmas" by delivering presents?! Since when were presents the purpose of Christmas?!!? It's so jacked up, so very jacked up. Christmas, with the exception of a few households, was forgotten long ago. We can only hope it doesn't suffer the same fate as Thanksgiving, where if I were to tell you it was a Christian Holiday, you wouldn't believe me. Public schools now educate that Thanksgiving was the feast day when the pilgrims thanked the indians for all their help. NO. It was the day the pilgrims thanked God for letting them live their first year. How hard is that to believe? They came over on a boat to unsettled land in the middle of nowhere just for freedom of religion, how hard is it to believe they dedicated a day (or feast) to thank God? The Holidays frustrate me this way. Santa took Christmas, the schools trashed Thanksgiving, and the easter bunny jacked Easter. If ever you hear Christianity is the biggest religion, it's WRONG. Christianity is the biggest PROFESSED religion. Xianity is the biggest religion.
@Prosper: Here's my reaction to what you said, this is just my opinion. I think there's a difference between the Thanksgiving situation and the Christmas situation as you described them. In both cases, as you put it, the notion has (or is in the process of) drifted from it's religious origin. In the case of Thanksgiving, it has become a holiday celebrated by our entire society . The loss of any original religious significanse is a result, but those who still care to remember are welcome to. I see this as an overall beneficial move towards more inclusiveness; it's good for a society to widely celebrate holidays together and we can't use religion to tie us together. In the case of Christmas, I see the changes as being much more of an exploitation of the market. I think this is much more of a negative outcome. (I think I could manage to mention the flaws of capitalism in every debate in this forum, lol). Gotta feed the beast... If [popular] Christmas didn't exist, it would be necessary for the market to invent it. But as in Thanksgiving, it's still true that those who choose to observe it's original meaning are free to. You can't let the overall view get to you, that's an unwinable battle. Worry about yourself.
It's not his birth from a virgin that Christmas celebrates, it's celebrating John 3:16. God gave us his only son. What's not to celebrate. I see Christmas and Easter as about equal. Christmas is God the Father's work towards our atonement (Sacrificing his only son (who is also himself) to sinful Earth), and Easter is Jesus' sacrifice to the same goal. Seeing as they are Equal in power (seeing as 1. Jesus said so, and 2. they are the same being), their sacrifices should be of equal value, right?
The way someone celebrates a holiday and the reasons for celebration should be completely flexible to the person. Holidays have become more secular and more inclusive which trumps any complaint about fading tradition in my mind. If someone wants to celebrate life with their loved ones and participate in a mass celebration the motives become less important than the result. Family's can make their own traditions. That's what's great about freedom. Just because you don't believe in religious mythology, doesn't mean you can't celebrate Easter with your family. As a whole we are just not as religious as a society as we once were, but there are still plenty of reasons to celebrate.
That was cold. So, so cold. Christians created Christmas long ago as celebration of Jesus' birth. That is what it is. Anything else is not Christmas, but something different. Usually we call it Xmas. If the first Friday of November was national feed a donkey day, and some non-Americans began celebrating it, yet instead of feeding the donkey they humped the donkey, is it really the same thing? That's what's going on, they're humping the donkey.
You do realize the irony in that analogy, right? (think instead of christians and agnostics, pagans and christians)
Stouf, I don't even agree with your friend. What makes him think Hanukkah is commercialized? The fact that it's associated with gifts? Plenty of Jewish holidays involve gift-giving, but that doesn't necessarily make them entirely commercialized. I live in the Bible Belt, and I still don't see Christmas associated with religion nearly as much as I would expect. Hanukkah still clearly celebrates a cause: Jews light candles to signify the menorah that stayed lit for 8 nights and eat foods fried in oil to signify the oil that burned. You tell me what a decorated tree and a fat man in red have to do with the birth of Christ.