i get into things for how well they tell a story. a) foreshadowing b) character development not only does samurai champloo fall extremely short on both of these in comparison, but there are episodes that are such heavy filler that you can skip entire episodes. on top of that, characters and events just jump in out of the blue. It's like they didnt know where they were going with it until the second half (you know, after the retarded clip show episode). the only character they developed as well as ALL of the main bebop characters is Jin. Champloo's got style and fantastic animation and it's highly entertaining, i own it for a reason but you're just stirring the pot if you put it above Bebop. It's about substance. it sounds to me like you need to watch Cowboy Bebop again if you think the plot was just GET MONEY FOR BOUNTIES.
This is primarily directed at Sarg, but also at anyone else it applies to: We aren't the same person, obviously our tastes are going to differ. I don't bash people who like Bebop, so don't bash me for liking Champloo over Bebop. If I think Bebop is worse than Champloo, I am entitled to that opinion, and not only because I have seen more anime than most people. This whole argument is similar to ones comparing Durarara and Baccano, both are made by the same people, with the same styling, with the same quality. It's just that some people will like one over the other, while I could like Champloo and Baccano, you could be the type of person who prefers Bebop and Durarara. As for what you think of what I like, I don't care, just don't call me an idiot for liking something you don't, or not liking something that you do.
FIND posts with: tone condescension instances: only first special cases: none RETURN Hm, it's like I expected my "facepalm" quote to be it, but fact dictates otherwise. And just for extra clarification... FIND posts with: word "idiot" instances: any special cases: synonyms RETURN none "Hey Sarge, look at you insulting me, I was just minding my business then you went and called me an idiot." While it happens quite often, I've never run into an instance of it actually happening during an argument, ever. People always cast stones first then neglect to remember they did so once they have no other crutch to hold them up. I don't insult someone if I intend on arguing with them, because that would mean I don't respect what they have to say in the least, AND it ****s up any logical basis I would've had to stand on. Ad hominem and all that. ****ing annoying. It was a matter of opinion until you decided to be a little too hasty there and simply decry our conflicting opinion in a VERY condescending manner. I pointed it out, then you went and did that. tsk tsk.
why does sarge get a reply for saying "facepalm" and when i tried to discuss it i got ignored. whatever. okay so to everybody who isnt a hypocrite on a high horse, i watched Ghost in the Shell for the first time today, I loved it. I feel pretty retarded for never seeing it, since used to eat sleep and breath the matrix. It was so biologically gross, it reminded me of classic horror films, and of course, the animatrix.
mmm, the second movie wasn't that bad, it was more targeted towards people that liked the series though. I can't say much about the first movie as I haven't seen it myself, even though I own it. (just never got around to it)
Cowboy Bebop isn't just about, "Get more money," as you say. I find that to be a very narrow-minded statement that clearly shows a lack of critical thinking. Samurai Champloo is quite literally, "Find Samurai who smells like sunflowers," with the entire journey compromising of getting from point A to point B. While this is a perfectly fine, the reason I love Bebop is that it completely breaks away from this linear form of storytelling. I love the fact that there is no, "ultimate goal," for the characters to accomplish. It allows the story to be so much more fluid and brings about this vibe which makes you feel like you're travelling with the crew as the journey unfolds. Where will we go next? I have no idea, but I know it's going to kick ass! Bebop's basic premise is that a band of misfit bounty hunters, brought together by various circumstances, are travelling the solar system in search of bounties to, "get more money." That is the bare-bones explanation one would give to someone who has never heard of the show. If we delve further into what makes Cowboy Bebop tick, we can see how deep it truly is. The entire crew of the Bebop is living in a dream, cruising the stars looking for the next bounty as they live out their existences. The Bebop is a symbol for Limbo- a place between heaven and hell. Between life and death. Bounty hunting, essentially, just a way to get the characters from one place to the next while their back stories develop and their motivations examined. The money is entirely irrelevant. As for the whole, "tying to historical significance," aspect of Champloo, I find that trite and irrelevant. A fleshed out fantasy/sci-fi world is much more appealing to me than a world based in our reality. It allows us to escape and to ignore history and focus on what this world has to offer. How cool is it that a huge chunk of the moon was shattered when the first "Astral Gate" in orbit around it blew up and now the Earth has been turned into a mine field where asteroids and meteors crash into it multiple times a day? I really think you are doing Cowboy Bebop, and yourself, a great disservice by simplifying it into such a shallow concept of, "make money." Forget anime, Bebop is a massive accomplishment in the world of animation. It is up there with the works of Hayao Miyazaki. Nothing has, and nothing ever will, top it in my mind. The story Bebop manages to tell in 26 episodes is heaps more complex, original, and rewarding than anime that run 200+ episodes. And let us not forget the epic soundtrack from Yoko Kanno and The Seatbelts. What other show, let alone a cartoon, has a 50+ member band producing amazing music across dozens of genres? The music is a huge part of the show for me and I have yet to hear as impressive a soundtrack as Cowboy Bebop has. I recommend you watch the show again from start to finish. If you still think it's just about, "getting more money," then watch it again. If you still feel the same way, well then I guess you should... watch it once more.
If Cowboy Bebop has very little story why is it so popular? I don't get it. Not that there's anything wrong with it, personally I really enjoy it. If any anime that had no story was popular, I think there'd be a hell of a lot more fanservice around.
I guess my heretic mind will never understand your superior opinion. /sarcasm You do a disservice to the rest of anime when you so arrogantly say you will not budge on your opinion that Bebop is the best thing that ever was and ever will be. You have no grounds on which to say it is the best anime that will ever be borne from the minds of mankind. Now, suspending my disbelief of your opinion due to that fact to point out some things; You picked at that Champloo was When, every journey at its core is just that. Get to the destination. The journey would not have begun in the first place had someone not had a destination in mind. Without a destination all it would be is aimless wandering. You also seem to have a quite narrow-minded train of thought regarding Champloo, you pick at me for stating that the only overarching goal that falls over episode to episode is to get more money to live. All the while, you go and state that Champloo is ONLY about getting to the samurai that smells of sunflowers. Okay, sure, you named one of the few goals that are brought up very early in the series. For one, that is only Fuu's goal. Both Mugen and Jin have the additional goal to fight and kill each other after they find the samurai for Fuu and that is introduced very early on in the series. Through the journey, they learn that Mugen is illiterate, that Jin wears his glasses purely for show, but there are things left obscured about Mugen's past which further characterizes WHY he only cares about fighting and vulgar things. Mugen could be compared to Spike in the way that the purposeful lack of specific information from his past is what characterizes him the most over what they actually DO tell you about him. Next is your comment on the irrelevance of money in Bebop. Since Bebop is not one singular story and is instead segmented stories, there is no final goal or destination they want to reach. However, each segment of the story DOES have a goal, and that is the capture of their bounty. Obviously the bounty changes each episode, but the goal is to capture them, the story is simply how they go about doing that. I said that their goal ultimately boiled down to simply wanting to get more money because there is no other goal that extends beyond a single story segment. This ties into what I said previously, that without an end destination it is merely aimless wandering, although that is necessary for it to function as a segmented plotline. Lastly, I find it hard to believe that any fully fictional universe can be fleshed out enough to even compete with the complexity of real historical events and the real world. Fiction has its "wow" factors, such as when the moon chunk is blown up in Bebop, but that is pretty much all it has. Bebop doesn't have a fully realized setting, it is all character driven in a fictional environment. Champloo on the other hand, is primarily character driven as well, but with an environment pulled from history. Point being, historical fiction (what Champloo is) is much easier to relate to the environment than that of a science fiction romp through space. Clearly they both have different target audiences (gasp). Who would have thunk it, they could have made two anime with DIFFERENT target audiences? Oh my god, rally the troops... I fully understand Bebop for what it is, and it is good, don't get me wrong. I simply don't find it to be the same holy pinnacle of anime that you do. I'm not going to even bother suggesting that you re-watch Champloo since you are so egg-headed to say Bebop can never be bested.
Right, no more discussion about which anime is best, that argument will never go anywhere as we each have our own tastes and opinions as to what we like and dislike. [sub]Fanservice FTW![/sub]
Lynx, spoiler your previous comment about Spike. We don't want to ruin the ending of the series for anybody. There are elements being compared between the two anime when they shouldn't be. It's like comparing a pineapple to a carrot. Bebop is more somber while Champloo leans more toward comedy, thus aspects of one will be more defined than the other. Anywho, Aschur, I'm hopefully finishing Kamisama no Memochou today. Other than the disappointing ending of episode 10, I've loved it. EDIT: Top 25 anime of 2000-2012 Spoiler 1. Bakemonogatari 2. K-ON! 3. Ano Hi Mita Hana 4. Working!! 5. Toradora! 6. Clannad 7. To Aru Kagaku no Railgun 8. Angel Beats! 9. Danshi Koukousei no Nichijou 10. Puella Magi Madoka Magica 11. Shinryaku! Ikamusume 12. The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya 13. To Aru Majutsu no Index 14. Nichijou 15. Baka To Test To Shoukanjuu 16. Hanasaku Iroha 17. Guilty Crown 18. Yuru Yuri 19. Infinite Stratos 20. Sora no Otoshimono 21. Ore no Imouto 22. THE IDOLM@STER 23. Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai 24. Hidan no Aria 25. Chihayafuru Bad list for the most part. It's disappointing that K-on! still manages to top these lists. I agree that Bakemonogatari should be #1, but I think Angel Beats should be much higher. This one isn't a debatable list, but here it is anyway: Top 25 most awaited anime of April 2012 Spoiler 1. AKB0048 2. Fate/Zero 2nd Season 3. Hyoka 4. Kore wa Zombie Desu Ka? OF THE DEAD 5. Haiyore! Nyaruko-san 6. Accel World 7. Saki – Achiga-hen Episode of Side-A 8. Medaka Box 9. Kimi to Boku 2 10. Shining Hearts: Shiawase no Pan 11. Natsuiro Kiseki 12. Shirokuma Cafe 13. Tasogare Otome x Amnesia 14. Kids on the Slope 15. Eureka Seven AO 16. Hiiro no Kakera 17. Kuroko no Basket 18. Phi Brain: Puzzle of God 2nd Season 19. Tsuritama 20. Sengoku Collection 21. Queen’s Blade Rebellion 22. Upotte!! 23. Sankarea 24. Uchū Kyōdai 25. Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water I've been reading Sankarea's manga adaption, so I'm looking forward to the anime.
Where's HOTD on the most awaited anime? Or is it out and I haven't seen it yet? Must start K-ON! soon and I need to keep up with BRS a bit more but time restraints and stuff keep holding me back. Got the second season of Sora no Otoshimono to watch too. Dammit. Someone invent a time machine pl0x.
It was all posted on youtube in HD, someone on FH linked it. I downloaded all of them, but didn't watch them when I found out it basically devolves into a boobfest.
You're overly aggressive stance aside (by your writing style alone I can tell you are fairly young), I will attempt to continue this debate in a reasonable manner. I am not trying to say Champloo is a bad show- not at all in fact. I love the show. It just cannot, in my opinion, compete with Bebop. Oh trust me, the /sarcasm was entirely unnecessary. I have every grounds to make a statement on which anime I think is the best of all time. Considering how shitty anime these days is, I firmly believe that nothing else comes even close to Cowboy Bebop's legendary status. Why do you think so many people who hate anime love this show? It is able to transcend the boundaries and connect with a broader audience than just about any other anime out there. Someone who isn't a fan of anime would never be interested in Champloo. Also, I plainly stated that this was my opinion. This entire point of yours is moot. I was very specific about this as well. The whole "aimless wandering" is the essence of Bebop. As I said, the Bebop is symbolism for Limbo. They are all drifting through space, just going from one place to the next as they try to move on in their lives. The series ends with Ed leaving to go find her father with Ein. She has found a purpose in life and thus escapes limbo. Spike's goal was to find Julia, but after her death there is nothing more for him to live for. Death is his freedom and he clearly has no intentions of surviving his assault on the Red Dragon Syndicate headquarters. Jet and Faye are still stuck when the series ends and with the cancellation of Big Shot, it seems as if they will eventually be forced to confront themselves and find their own purpose in life in order to move on from the dream. The goal shared by Mugen and Jin wanting to kill eachother is so shallow that it does not even warrant being discussed beyond what it is. It doesn't really define the characters in any way except that they hate eachother at first, but big surprise! They're kinda-sorta friends in the end. Boring and predictable. You say there are things about Mugen's past that are left obscured that characterize his aggressive personality, but provide no evidence to back it up? If they are left obscured, how can they characterize him? We actually learn a great deal about Spike's past if you pay enough attention. We know that sometime before the series takes place, Spike and Vicious were best friends and worked for the Red Dragon crime syndicate. Spike ended up stealing Vicious' woman, Julia, and ran off with her leaving the syndicate behind. Along the way they were separated, but the feud between Vicious and Spike remains strong. Spike's wants to find Julia, and figures by travelling the solar system he may eventually find information that leads him to her. The 2-parter "Jupiter Jazz" helps expand upon this, giving us a deeper look into Spike's past. There is no bounty he's chasing after here- just a woman. Julia is the real mystery in the series, not Spike. I've already addressed this point, but I'll touch on this briefly. The bounty hunting, as I said before, is just a way to have the character moving around and getting involved in situations that allow the writers to reveals bits and pieces of the overarching story at a time. Every character is given a few of their own episodes in which they are the hero in order to flesh out more of their background. The real plot is going on behind the scenes and requires the viewer to piece together elements of the story on their own and fill in some of the gaps using their imagination. The bounty is truly frivolous, but you seem to be having a hard time looking beyond the surface. I'm a bit stunned by your ignorant belief that a fictional world cannot hold a candle to a non-fictional one in terms of believability. Try reading "A Song of Ice and Fire," by George R. R. Martin. His fantasy world is so detailed, so intricately planned and thought out, that you feel you are actually living in that world, seeing things unfold in front of your very eyes. I agree that it is easier to relate to real events pulled from history since humans obviously find it easier to relate to our own reality, but if the writing is good enough then the fictional world can be just as believable. I'm also not sure why you think Bebop and Champloo have different target audiences. I would say they are largely the same- 14-28 years olds who like action and anime. I have watched Champloo three times through- enough for me to form a solid opinion on the show. No anime has ever captivated me like Bebop and so far none have managed to do so in the same way.
Just ****ing drop it already, sky said to drop it, he ultimately has final word here as it is his thread. Seriously, I think I speak for both me and him when I say we're tired of the ****. Get back to discussing anime and manga rather than arguing about whose OPINION is better. Now, that out of the way; 2. Fate/Zero 2nd Season 4. Kore wa Zombie Desu Ka? OF THE DEAD 6. Accel World 9. Kimi to Boku 2 15. Eureka Seven AO 20. Sengoku Collection Those are the only ones I've heard anything about so far, and good lord am I excited for the 2nd season of Fate/Zero, almost as much as I was hyped for the second season of Game of Thrones. I was also kinda dissatisfied with the ending to Kamisama no Memochou, it just gave the impression that it could have been longer. EDIT: OH, i also heard something about a second season of Ore no Imouto, but I have no idea how valid the source is or if it's just a rumor.
[Lynx lays out the deeper meaning behind Cowboy's setting and characters in comparison to Samurai Champloo's, which he feels are less developed and meaningful, although he enjoys both shows] Good Point. This is Cowboy Bebop's first episode. To anyone who reads this, (yes you), who has never watched Cowboy Bebop before, I personally recommend this show. It's enjoyable, it's moving, and watching it is a good use of your time. Of course if you can watch it in a higher quality than youtube can offer, that's good too. There's a reason it's often touted as the best anime series of all time. Watch. Cowboy Bebop episode 1 english dub - YouTube
After watching the first 5 minutes of that, I have the sudden urge to watch Gundam Seed again. Anyway, that was one of the less enjoyable episodes. In my opinion, Speak like a Child was the most enjoyable of them all. I also recommend Cowboy Bebop for those who haven't seen it. Even if you don't particularly like anime, i'm sure you will get some kind of enjoyment out of it.
it's the anime series for people who aren't into anime, which makes it the best of the best imo. when something transcends like that it's definitely special, you can't argue that. and about those two shows being for different target audiences, im a HUGE fan of both... rofl.
Just found something you guys may be into, I know I personally liked the first episode of it. Lupin the Third: The Woman Called Fujiko Mine It's the first new Lupin the Third series in 27 years. Do be warned though, there are boobies. Not fanservice like what Sky likes, just boobs.