EDIT: This map version has been updated. Information and screenshots have been added to this post under "Version Update Information". The link above opens the page for the new map, I removed the old version from my file share. Original Description: "Perilous rocky terrain and winding structures make this a challenging battleground." Hey all, Im back with another map (unfortunately ), named Subterfuge. Its an an extra-medium sized, open, asymmetrical map, based in Forgeworld, that is designed for all Slayer, Oddball, CTF, KOTH and Head Hunter variants (and Juggernaut, I found out recently -ED). As per usual, I will add more if people request them. When I started making it, I wanted to make a map in a place where no one else would be likely to place one, and I think Ive successfully done that. Whether or not its successful is another story... Anyway, I had the idea to make a map that was half structure, half rocky terrain, which was hard to get to grips with at first but fun once you knew its layout. And I also wanted it to be a cliff-like map, as in one wrong step and you fell to your demise. I also thought it would be cool to incorporate the waterfalls into it somehow but unfortunately that didnt eventuate because theres some kind of kill zone around them, so I had to settle for them being in the backdrop. They ended up giving the map a nice ambient sound though, so it kinda works out. So, when running on the rocky parts of the map, it can sometimes be a little difficult to navigate as theres lots of uneven ground and criss-crossing paths. But when you find the best spots and paths to run, youll discover that theres lots of cover around, places to hide, and some cool little drop downs that can be used creatively. Each base has around 4+ ways to get in, so its not easy to defend on CTF games, but not to the point where its aggravating. There are sniper "towers" on each side as well, so campers get a bit of service. Good luck staying on them, though. There are two levels to this map. The first being the aforementioned rocks/structure on top, the lower level however is where this map gets its name inspired from. There is a pathway underneath the main battleground which is where you will find the Energy Sword, but it is also used to travel to each side of the map, relatively unnoticed. Each end has a way to get up into either base, or a finely tuned man cannon to shoot you back into the middle ground on top. There are also two power weapons for each side as well, being a sniper for blue, and a GL for red. Designers Tip: When you first play this map, I recommend playing Crazy King, as the hill zones are in places that help you to get to know the different areas around the map. ; ) Lastly, this is an old map of mine that I recently redesigned to submit to Forge Hub, so if there are any glitches or things that dont look right let me know. And for those eagle-eyes out there that go into Forge to check this out, you may notice that there are some anti-spawn zones down in the water underneath the map. Yes theyre there on purpose. When I was placing respawns around, one of them slid off into the water, and it was too deep for me to retrieve and delete it, and I had placed all the other ones around already so I didnt want to delete all. So, in the hopes of stopping people from spawning into it I placed two team and one neutral anti-spawn on it. If anyone does happen to spawn into it, Im sorry, Ill endeavor to fix it. And for those that may know a way to get it out, please post your ideas. I tried dragging it out with a large covered walkway, but they cant be manipulated (respawns) in that way by other objects. Ok, sorry for that novel of an intro, now, onto the screenies! An overview of the map Blue base Red base Under Blue base Under Blue base/lower path Lower path/under Red base Under Red base Middle ground Blues front door Red base side entrance Blues sniper tower Alrighty, thats it for now. As always, feedback on things that could be changed like spawn points, weapons, weapon locations, or changing the terrain, are always welcome, so dont hesitate to let me know. Cheers! ________________________________________________________ VERSION UPDATE INFORMATION Ok, Ive gotten the map to a level that I think is presentable to the general public. It may need some more things in there, but Ill wait and see what everyone says first. Now, Ill give a little bit of info with each screenie, so enjoy! This is the new Red Base. To change up the norm of having just a pre-fab building, I decided to place two triple rooms on top of one another, and it doesnt look too shabby. On either side are windows, which let in a little light inside the base, but the upper middle section is closed off. Looks nice inside, and gives it a kind of grandeur. Regarding the bridges, I decided to scrap basically all of them and add multiple levels instead. I kept the sniper tower idea, but changed its position and style, and I think this version of it looks better. I was originally going to incorporate some kind of shield door onto one of the levels too, but thought it was kind of pointless as far back as I had it, so I scrapped that. The opposite side of the base. In between the two levels, that the ramps coming from the side door on the far right lead to, was where I was going to place the shield door. But you can see that its too far back, so really not worth putting there. You can also see the staircase leading up to the sniper nest. I couldnt find anything that connected to it properly without looking stupid, so I just decided to make it out of columns. There is also the crenelated cover on the top middle deck, which breaks it up a little. A Needler sits in between the two pieces. This is the new bridge coming off the side of the base. Originally I had a sheastack there that connected right to the door, but I had to delete it (and several other rocks) to stop the game from lagging. As you can see, the bridge is made from crenelated cover and a 5X1 short block. The platform to the left is a large Y platform, and is a good spot for KOTH. A view from the platform. Here you can see a column leading up to the doorway. I had to do this because the height I had the platform at was perfect so that one of its railings wasnt above another piece of scenery. Any higher and it would have been in the way of a hallway, but then the lower platform and the base door didnt line up, so I had to make a mini ramp up the the base doorway. If you look just to the right of the window, youll see a small opening. This is what I call the murder-hole. From there, you can snipe up to the Blues sniper tower with very little of yourself being seen, but just enough so that you cant camp there. Its also right next to the main entrance from the middle area, so if youre not watching, someone can sneak up on you. This is the revised middle area. Unfortunately I had to delete a lot of the rocks I had here, but I tried to make up for that loss with a few ramps here and there, and I also moved some of the rocks around to make it flow a little better. Sucks, but had to be done. On advice from Squidman, this is where the Blue base grav-lift now resides. Its out of the way, off a walkway, so it doesnt disrupt gameplay, and it shoots you up to... ...here, just outside the Blue Base main door. You have to steer yourself a little forward to get onto the ledge, but its not a struggle. I have also tweaked the rocks a little here so that you can hop over the wall from that crate, giving another passage into the base. Ok, thats it for the screen shots. Also worth mentioning is I added a few more pieces of cover around, and slightly moved a few others to suit the new open style map a bit more. Hopefully it works out, but Im always up for change if anyone thinks it needs to be. Oh, and I thought Id list the weapons for this map as well. Health Stations x 3 - 90sec Plasma Pistol x 1 - 30sec Magnum x 1 - 30 sec Frag Grenade x 6 - 60sec DMR x 2 - 60sec Needler x 2 - 100sec Plasma Repeater x 1 - 100sec Plasma Grenade x 4 - 120sec Needle Rifle x 1 - 120sec Grenade Launcher x 1 - 160sec Sniper Rifle x 1 - 160sec Shotgun x 1 - 180sec Energy Sword x 1 - 180sec So, thats about it, if anyone thinks of anything that could/should be changed, please let me know. Thanks for everyones help so far, and I hope I can make this map up to scratch. It is now available from the link above. Cheers!
I really love all of the cover. Many forgers have trouble with placing cover and never have enough of it. But it looks like this map has enough cover. I like the rock structure of your map but I think the other half is lacking. You can do so much more with the forge pieces instead of just using bridges, which is what it look like you did from the pictures. You can make it way more aesthetically pleasing because the walkways are unappealing by them selves. You should just keep forging and you'll become a lot better. You look like a very promising forger because it is such a pain to work with rocks and you built your whole map around them. You should also take a look at some of the featured maps and look at there aesthetics. This will help you create more beautiful maps. I myself am using techniques I found from other maps to create my new map.
You've kinda created half a good map in my eyes. The rock structure looks well built and makes a break from all the grey in most forgeworld maps. However, the other side looks terrible. Don't use bridges everywhere. It makes the map too tight and linear. Rather, play around with different structures and make larger play areas. The map looks like it could have potential. Change the red base side, make it super shmexy and such. Good work.
Alright, so the general consensus is that bridges suck . Didnt say it before, but this was actually the first map Id made, so I was unaware that using bridges was taboo when forging back then. But, like most people know, its hard to let go of what you think are good ideas and when I came back to it, I thought that they worked well with how the map works. The intention being that they would deter you from hanging around that side of the base and force you into the middle and outer areas. But if it stops it from being a good map, then Im open to change. I have a few ideas floating around in my head at the moment, so Ill play around with those and see what comes out. I dont want to change the under walkway though, as I think that suits the map well. But Ill work around that and may end up changing it around eventually, and apply an extra layer of shmexyniess to it. ; ) Cheers for the feedback, guys.
Well, I like the Idea for the map. I looks really interesting with the ROck and metal sides. The rock looks crazy and I think It would be great to battle over. But I think the map is better because you have the metal part. But to be honest, The other building structures are poorly made. The just look sloppy and unrealistic. Also some gravlifts are out of place. I love the Idea though, Cant wait to see what you do with it. Squidman
Like I said, it was the first map I made, ever. And I realise that the way I made the building was not as good as I thought it was back then, but I thought that it could be forgiven for the intent that I had behind it when I posted it here. Anyway, Im working on it, and Ive remade alot of the Red base area. Ive kept the building where it is, but I used a bit more imagination to make it look a little better. I hit a little bit of a wall yesterday, so to speak, but when I get back to it today hopefully Ill overcome it. And may I ask, Squidman, which grav-lifts looked out of place? Ill see if theres anything I can do about it, but theyre all in practical positions in relation to the map. One lift launches you up onto the cliff just outside the Blue base, and the other one launches you up into Red base. Unless you meant the man-cannons.
No I mean the grav lift shown in the First and Fourth pictures. It seems like it is smack in the middle of the walkway. I would suggest building a platform just off to the side and place the grav lift there.
Ahh, yeh, it is in the middle of the walkway, but its at the end of the walkway which is where you jump up to Blue. I suppose I could move it over to a slightly angled platform, ala Pinnacle, so its out of the way and doesnt disrupt gameplay. Thanks for the info. And Just to let everyone know, Ive been coming across some lag issues since yesterday. Its never happened before, and it started happening before I made any changes to the map itself. Dont know why or how its happening, it may have something to do with all the rocks, but Im trying to figure that out, so bear with me. As I said it hadnt happened before, and I dont know why its doing it now, so if anyone downloads this map and notices it could you please let me know, and if you figure out why its doing it? Thanks, greatly appreciated. EDIT: Ok, I believe Ive found the reason for all the lag, although I dont know why it has chosen to rear its ugly head at this point and not before. I deleted a large number of rocks and I havent noticed any lag whatsoever. That sucks, because it wasnt ever doing it before, and I cant see a reason for it to happen now. As a result, Im going to have to redesign a large portion of the map. Ill try and change as little as possible, but it needs to be done because Im not going to let it ruin the gameplay simply for aesthetics sake. This may take a little longer, so please, again, bear with me until I can present something to you guys that I deem good enough. Thanks for your patience.
Thanks, man. Ive submitted this to the Review Hub too, to see what they think of it. Will be interesting to see what their response is. Ive only had a very brief time play testing on it, so Ill have to get some friends together and give it a whirl, but Im confident that it will hold up well.
SUBTERFUGE V3 Subterfuge V3 is a medium sized, four to eight player battleground that is compatible with most gametypes. Despite its compatibility some gametypes like King of the Hill and Oddball are not viable to play. These gametypes are incredibly dull and frustrating to play on Subterfuge. During games of King of The Hill, it is likely for one player to spawn right next to a hill, and the others on the opposite end of the map. Because Subterfuge is difficult to navigate, by the time the enemy has reached the hill it will have moved again. This means that games of King of the Hill on Subterfuge are incredibly aggravating and frustrating. However, on other gametypes such as Capture the Flag Subterfuge performs better. These are successful because Subterfuge has various walkways and entrances to areas, so players have more tactical options. This also means that players will have to work together to be successful, which makes for an immersive experience. Slayer the main attraction, is equally disappointing. Nearly all the fighting takes part on the rocky half of the map, which is full of spots that are easy to camp in, such as the crate at the front of the area. The moment players discover these spots that can be camped within, games become centred around these spots, not different from the map sword base and the lift room. Battles become repetitive after a short while, as the fighting naturally takes place in the rocky areas, and there is a lack of areas in which fighting does take place. Although there are multiple entrances to each section of the map to allow players some freedom to move about, it is not enough to support multiple areas of combat. This means that Subterfuge has a fairly poor replay value. When nobody is camping however, Subterfuge has a nice flow to its gameplay. Kills will come fairly fast, but not overwhelmingly quickly so that the game is over before it begins. Because the map is difficult to navigate and traverse, many players will opt to use jetpack as their armour ability. For some players having a focus on a different armour ability is a welcome change. However given the extreme emphasis of the jet pack on Subterfuge will annoy its cynics a lot. Even still, the gimmick of an armour ability change wears off quickly, and players will not enjoy it after the initial thrill wears off. In that sense, the first game on Subterfuge has some flair to it, but by the second and third and as the forced feel sinks in, Subterfuge is average. Subterfuge contains many places that can be exploitable by camping, such as the blind corners in the buildings and the shotgun room. The blind corners are especially bad in King of The Hill because Hills are often right next to them, with a gap from the hill to the corner, which allows camping players to use Armour Lock to defend themselves against the grenade spam so often caused by areas susceptible to camping. Many of these areas, such as the shotgun room are right next to power weapons. The shotgun room is a very small room with only two entrances, both of which are far too easy to defend with the shotgun that is given to the player right in front of them. This room can be very problematic in king of the hill as a hill is in there. When combined with some poorly chosen power weapons, such as the sniper rifle, these camping spots have a disastrous effect on the game. The sniper rifle is incredibly over powered because the higher up sections of the rocks provide plenty of cover for a hiding sniper, whilst providing a large top down view of the map that offers no cover to opponents. However, the other two power weapons; the sword and the grenade launcher have been well chosen. The wielder of the sword must tread carefully to make use of his weapon, given the open walkways on Subterfuge V3, but is still a very effective weapon to have. The grenade launcher is equally well chosen as it is not given many rounds in which to use. As a whole, the power weapons have been somewhat fairly dished out. Red team receives the grenade launcher and the shotgun, whilst Blue team receives the energy sword and the sniper. No power weapons are placed in the middle of the map. However, Blue team, who spawns with the sniper rifle will spawn at the rocks next to the highly exploitable areas. This puts Red team at a starting disadvantage, as they can all be quickly spawn killed if the sniper is in the hands of a skilled player, which can totally shut out Blue team from the very start, as the rocks are the most used area in the game. Therefore it would have made more sense to give Red team the sniper rifle at spawn, and Blue Team the grenade launcher. As it stands, Blue team are at a mild disadvantage from the start. The metal buildings on Red team’s side are very much underused, especially in Slayer gametypes, which makes it stick out a lot. The walkways are also underused, and are only really a way of exiting some poorly placed spawns. The map will often spawn players at the lower levels, making them prime suspects for ambushes the moment they spawn. To get up to the rocks the spawning player will have to slowly work their way up the pathways to the opposite end of the map before crossing the map again to make it to the rocky areas. By this time the team that is occupying the rocks has been able to have a nice cup of tea and a read of the newspaper, not to mention digging themselves in, reloading and restocking. This section has been written by Sgt Surchin (And Oli The G because Sgt Surchin randomly decided to leave for a month without warning) Because Subterfuge is within a safe zone the map cannot be escaped from. The spawn placements are just ample enough to keep all players within the map's boundaries. The spawning is somewhat exploitable however, as players can sometimes be spawned into the sea for an instant death, or outside the map. Given that Subterfuge is a competitive map this is unacceptable. As for how the spawning affects gameplay, there are far too many spawns in areas that contain very little cover, which can lead to a rather large amount of spawn killing at times. Subterfuge is a mess. The rocky area looks more like a tumour than a map as it sticks out in a very unattractive way. Because of the confusing layout, particularly in the lower areas, moving about Subterfuge is difficult. In fact, gravity lifts have been thrown about the map just so players can get out of the labyrinth of walkways Subterfuge deems players to face after spawning again. There are also no areas with attention to detail, and there are several premade structures. This means that the aesthetics on Subterfuge are very bland. Also, pieces on Subterfuge have not been smoothly forged. This can make movement incredibly difficult and tedious, and can often lose players a battle. Movement is so difficult that players will have to use hardcore parkour to traverse Subterfuge, to the extent that it may as well be called “Halo’s Edge.” This far into Halo: Reach, it is difficult to come up with new ideas. Credit must be given to the creator for trying to combine rocks into the map to try and beat the greys of Forge World once and for all, even though they have not necessarily been successful in doing this. As for the style of the gameplay, the idea of making the jet pack more useful is a welcome one. However, jet packs just feel out of place on Subterfuge, and it is a shame that the idea was not expanded upon. Rating Multipliers [floatleft]Enjoyment: 4 x 3.0 = 12 out of 30 Balance: 5 x 3.0 = 15 out of 30 Durability: 5 x 1.5 = 7.5 out of 15 Aesthetics : 2 x 1.0 = 2 out of 10 Originality: 7 x 1.5 = 11.5 out of 15 [/floatleft] Final Score A fairly average map that is good for killing a bit of time. Subterfuge is a map with few issues, but has issues large enough to have a considerable impact upon its final score. The map does not deserve as low a score as 4.9, so it has been brought up to a 5.4. Understanding the Review Hub's Ratings Have a question about your review? Review Hub Community Feedback
Lol, I like the tumor bit. Admittedly, I knew this map wouldnt receive a high score. Since I finished this one Ive learned a lot more about how spawns work and how I can make maps more aesthetically pleasing whilst playable, but I didnt change it because I wasnt sure when the Review Hub would get around to downloading it. Utilizing what Ive learned since this map, I might come back and re-make this, hopefully making it better. Expect another review request, Oli. I appreciate the mid-level score it received, however I honestly think it deserved about 3. Thanks for the brutal honesty, and for (seemingly painfully) testing it out. I should have tested it more thoroughly myself before submitting it, or even given it to TH, but I digress. I promise the next submission will be much, much better.
I'm glad to know your happy with it. I lolled at the tea bit personally If you have any areas or suggestions you wish to discuss I am only a PM away. And i'd be happy to review your next map Thanks for choosing RH instead of TG. (Testers Hub?)