Besides that fact that you want me to against it... Slaves are actually free on a certain level....but that isn't the debate nor is it right to debate if its right or wrong. So.... your wanting to adopt because they don't have that right with out marriage? It that your only right? Because I would consider that shallow for rights for marrage as far as i'm concerned.
• Hmm, I don't want you to be against it, you just seemed to be. Are you against it? • I was trying to equate your statement to a situation that involved slavery. I'm not trying to change the topic though; just making an analogy. It would be beneficial for the child if it had two parents. Marriage solidifies that bond; it is something special. I suppose that they could raise children without being officially "married", but I just feel that it lowers them if they are unable to attain the title of "marriage". Still, why do straight people get married if they can just pretend to be married? It's the same reason that same-sex couples want to be "married". • I'm not saying that child adoption is their only right, just giving an example.
All men are created equal and deserve equal rights and opportunity. It's not the bonuses of marriage that make it appealing, it's the cultural significance and, for some gays who reconcile their homosexuality with god, it is for religious reasons. The bonuses of marriage, as G043R put it, don't matter because if they did no one would push for gay marriage, it would all be civil unions. The United States is my god and the constitution, my book. In my holy document it says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." I hold that sacred. If one person can be considering, "undeserving" or "less than equal" then my liberty as well is in jeopardy. Because if an exception can be made here it can be made there. Gays can't marry. Blacks can't marry whites. Atheists can't just for public office. Separate but equal, right? Had this been 50 years ago you'd be arguing against the right of blacks to marry whites. Go back 100 more you'd be arguing against the emancipation of slaves. Who's god? Your god? My god? Jeffrey Dahmer's god? A homosexual's god may only want homosexuals to marry, does that mean we outlaw straight weddings? No. I say to you now that if god does not wish for homosexuals to be happy may he strike me down right now in great anger ( Ezekiel 25:17). Please, just once, find a reason not to be offended. "Those homos think they're equal. Bullshit. I'll be long dead before that happens." Because he doesn't view it as sacred and the bible is very clear. He loves a babies exit out of the uterus but he hates a ****'s entrance. I call bullshit on you. When the bible says to stone disobedient children or that the Israelites had an exodus out of Egypt; he isn't just blowing out of his ass. If the bible were to encourage faith, then you wouldn't be so caring about worldly happenings. You hear that a lot in church. "The world is against us Christians, so we should separate ourselves and love god." Yet, every moment of every day one of you assholes finds some reason to get offended and to try (and sometimes succeed) to strip another human's rights. Your not doing this for god, your doing it for Christians. You are exercising your power. Believe it or not if there is a god he has a basic understanding of genomics and physiology. He knew putting two guys in the garden wouldn't produce a baby. So had it been Adam and Steve he wouldn't have had anyone to punish. He needed Eve. So he created her from man to have no voting rights and to be a sexual slave to a sexually oppressed people (Read the bible if you don't believe me). Should women be allowed to vote? If they can't preach the word of god (presumably because **** don't jive god's fancy), why should they elect our leaders? Think about it. You were labeled at birth as white, homophobic Christian. You didn't have any say in the matter (don't worry neither did I). But no labeling or problem can withstand the unstoppable force of mental thinking. How is that even close to ignorant. I thought it was brilliant, one the best one-liners I've seen in a debate. When did he tell you? Between you telling him about your day and forgiving you? How exactly did he tell you? In an audible voice? In vague immagery? How? I know you think you don't have to but you really do need to explain. You said you formualted your opinion based on how god has communicated with you. So tell us, how exactly did he communicate with you that told you to be a bigot. Because here's my whole take on the matter: Bigots go to heaven, fags go to hell. If you can't think for yourself no wonder you believe in a god. You can't formulate an opinion beyond "god told me." Ok, tough guy here's what I actually said, "So wait, gays don't deserve to live in happiness completely separate from you (probably never making an impression on you at all)" What does it all mean nitrous? I'll tell you ma boy. It means that you will live a world apart from them. You will probably never meet a gay married couple more than 5x in your lifetime, and even if you met them everyday it would not jeopardize your marriage or your sexuality. I don't know how you could have possibly miscontrued this as an insult but you did. Bravo. I have proved you otherwise! Read all most posts against you! Jesus Christ what do I have to do quote the bible? Who would Jesus discriminate against? Name one minority he looks down upon. If you can't then I have no idea how you could.
See your not defending the point at all of why. Why can't you have more reasons just stated. You know if your actually campaigning for something your really want.. you'll know all the aspects you want. ..your saying some one else has it so it must be right for you.... I think your need to actually look at it as a religious bond ... that has slowly altered to be this crappy legal bond. Now... again I would rather the term be changed to something else just for the understanding, as well avoiding the conflict of religious endeavors, it may sound like I'm trying to swap you with something else instead of marriage but it seems like your trying to get something legalized that is already formed to fit a hetero setup. I keep saying find another word instead of marriage ... because people its almost as useful to have a term making them slightly different then have mix ups occurring. I mean Separate but equal actually does work in some cases. I know that in civil rights of the past it was injustice but even with the work of jobs and employment it works...Separate and equal chance to work.... This is just a point.
Separate but Equal? What kind of "mix-ups" are you afraid of? What is in a word, anyway? You are saying that you don't mind gay couples having the exact same rights as heterosexual couples, just stay away from our word. Would a rose by any other name not smell as sweet? Why do you care so much about what their relationship is called? You can call it whatever you want. How about "Damnation Fling"? But, let them call it marriage. Let them introduce their partner at parties as their husband or wife. That's what they want, just to be included. Not to be cordoned off with their own word. Just a few examples of when Separate but Equal when dealing with minorities is a good concept, please.
Since I was suggesting a resolution of avoiding a churchy conflict changing the word makes a major turn point. Sexes... and if you missed it Job applications... Race isn't included. It does work... (separate but equal opportunity.
Actually as big of an ordeal its seems like a very passive and effective solution... Its is not the same as your sitting in different places... its not about anything its just a term in my case. Maybe taking a better word would work. Separate but equal still works... in any other case today... as listed above... And that stated.. its much more of a solution than forcing to groups to debate and solve nothing. ... If you don't like my solution... it is fine..but your not suggesting compromises... so its like beating two heads across the table.
The only compromise available is to call gay partnership "marriage". Marriage already means the union of two lovers, so why does it have to exclude same sex couples? For religious reasons? If so, that's ludicrous in my opinion. There's A LOT of secular marriages today, so marriage isn't anything holy anymore. Besides, WHEN gay marriage becomes legal, churches will still hold the right to refuse to marry anyone, which means same sex unions will not impose anything upon the church. I just want that same right you have; to marry someone whom I love. Sometime in the future, I want to be able to have someone who I may call my husband, and we will share the same legal benefits that any married couple has, because we will be married. Is that too much to ****ing ask? Separating marriage is the same as segregating drinking fountains by means of race. Separate but equal is disgusting G043R.
go ahead and have 8 wifes and 17 kids, but god PLEASE dont let 2 people of the same sex who love each other get married. NOOOOO!!!! D;
First of all, I'd like to say that I take back those comments about how I'm against gays. I accepts gays. Thanks to you guys I have accepted them. That's probably a good thing. I'm sorry for making all of those unreasonable and just plain bad comments about gays/lesbians. I'd like to end this part well. Don't make it worse. But I still think homosexuals shouldn't marry for reasons already stated. Please read all of this, don't just reply to just one part. I may have further backed it up. . Warning: This is a very messy post. Not messy as in bad, but messy as in not in order and stuff: . _______________________________ Of course people are getting too close minded! I say it's getting too close minded and you take it that it's you who i'm aiming at (and if you don't get this, then don't bother to reply, you're only digging yourself deeper)! There are lots of parts that people don't seem to be going through in my responses. Example: Before I said I believe God started humanity, but left it to us, yet someone comes along and asks me why God made people gay. Example 3: I say thanks to the ones who put up a good argument and people don't seem to recognize this at all. _______________________________ No, that's not how I reasoned at all! I said this is getting too personal and I don't like the tags people seem to be putting on my name. I don't like how so many people are swearing at me. I don't like the general mood. It's not fun at all. I personally don't like when people swear at me. My fault, sorry, I guess I should just say thanks for others saying **** you. Reynbow said it was a disgrace for me to be saying "bad" things against gays. I think it's a disgrace he calls God a fairy tail. The only way we can get to the end of this subject is if we get off subject, which people are telling us not to. Again, I'm going because of different reasons. I hate it that people come around and generalize on my statements. _______________________________ Three quotes and one reply!: "raging" - a violent desire or passion. source If this isn't quote, "raging" (answer to third quote) and getting too personal (answer to first quote), then I don't have the slightest idea of what is: They may not hate me, but I certainly feel hated. That's what counts, really. _______________________________ Value - import or meaning; force; significance: the value of a word. source Nobody said quote on quote that they aren't valuing my opinion. But after hearing how I've been treated, I kind of assumed that was the case. I just like this quote so much. Coming from a moderator and all. I love it. Maybe my most favorite quote ever made! _______________________________ I have supported my arguments. Gays shouldn't marry because of religion. I've stated this many many many times. I've also answered why I use religion, so don't come back saying "it's the seperation of church and state" _______________________________ they are fun?... no, good sir, they are not! While being able to see others views you do get unneeded and extreme criticism from the other party. I shouldn't have entered in the first place. _______________________________ Well, there we go. You didn't support your comment. No respect for so called "dramatizations" that you claim that I make. Not very convincing, not at all. _______________________________ I'd like to finish off with the rules and which rules have been violated: Violated STRONGLY Violated in small amounts. Religion. It's not an opinion. Violated STRONGLY. (don't be thinking I made the point that God hates gays... I never said God ever hated gays, don't reply saying I said it!... It's just to make sure!... Cuz that's what has been happening!... A lot!) Not violated. Can't be violated. Forum wide... and that does include this (if you didn't know). _______________________________ . It's not worth discussing if you don't take my whole response and transfer within that pink like spongy thing I like to call a brain. . The reason I have been responding to people is because what you claim is terribly wrong. I respond because once again, there has been a rather ignorant post. Read everything I've written about my argument using God. -Words of accuracy
That would explain Reynbow's comment. However, just because some people are mad doesn't mean we all are. Just ignore some people; you have to understand though, that you brought up religious reasons in a debate that is not about religion. Religion is not a universal thing, and what we are discussing is a policy that affects many places. It is too bad that you want to leave, but I can't stop you. G043R: Same sex-couples just want the same exact rights as straight couples; nothing more, nothing less.
I've already commented on this (no offense): marriage is a holy privilege that involves God. God is present from the beginning. I will remain this way. Edit: and i'm not going to even deal with Nitrous... You write the rules, I'd suggest that you follow them. And yeah you did break them. p.s. whatever happend to shock theta he was actually kinda cool and skittles he was awesome too. k, i will no longer respond to anybody in the discussion thread. Adios!
Wait a minute. You took "read your damn bible" as an insult? What if I had said, "read your bible?" Damn is an adjective and if anything was directed at the bible, not even with the intent of the word, no less. Now I can see you taking offense to "Are you f***ing serious." I think you only found it insulting because I used the word **** (at least I bleeped myself). **** is just part of my vocabulary. If you found that offensive, I admit it was directed at you and it was intended to a sarcastic insult, and, sure, I apologize for any bad feelings it may have caused you. However, I myself don't find it insulting and even if I did and someone else had said it, I don't run to the rule book and find a reason to call someone out. If I wanted to do that I could have infracted you for hate speech (just being honest), but I didn't because though I may disagree with what you say I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Reynbow has good reason to be upset. What if someone told you you couldn't marry the person you loved? You'd be fairly upset and making an arguement without some sort of emotion behind it would be incredibly difficult. I'm not trying to make reynbow's comments look any less serious than they are but try to look at it from his perspective and see if you can understand the anger he may feel. I did break one (barely...but whatever). You also broke one (maybe more). You spammed. Your above post was off topic from the debate and I could infract you for it but that's not how things work. There is a certain amount of flexibility to the rules. Also, I already used the bible to show that marriage is not holy and it's not a privilege. God really doesn't like this whole sex thing (which is why clergy are celibate). You asked me to reread your arguments which is unnecessary because I've read them twice and responding to them once. You need to read my posts, if anything.
Okay, I've got it. If you're gay and you want to marry your partner, you won't be married you'll be, Butt Buddies. Instead of husband and wife, Butt Buddies.
It's absolutely 100% ridiculous to say deny people the right to same-sex marriage. It's pretty much assumed that the denial of this right is rooted in religious belief. While we do have separation and church and state, I'm going to go ahead and attack it on the biblical level. In the bible it says "a man shall not lie with another man." ok, fine. But go to the next chapter and it says we should stone to death disobedient children. Why isn't THAT practiced? It's merely because people pick and choose what they want to believe. This is absolutely ridiculous. You can't pick and choose what you want to believe. That's like choosing to give people guns but then ignoring their freedom of speech in the constitution. In our country, your a criminal and labeled corrupt if you do this. The other reason might be that its illegal to stone a child. That means people are choosing the word of man over the word of god. WTF? I'm pretty sure god reigned supreme over benny franklin and thomas jefferson. So that argument is ridiculous. Furthermore, god tells us in the bible to love thy neighbor and love thy enemy. So why all the gay hate? They're made in god's image too! If your going to ignore those bits of the bible well then you simply aren't christian. And if you aren't christian, what grounds do you have for citing the bible as a reason to deny gays the right to marry? none!
Alright do you know why most states will not file taxes for Gay couples?... It isnt the fact the state doesn't wnat to. Its because most of the people in tax offices haven't been trained to deal with it. I talked to a woman about it actually, that will change over time... seems like Civil union is exactly a different term that has worked. As for devorce.... most states make it a year process...I'm from virginia...and its a year for sure. So since not every state is into the grove yet for civil rights its only a matter of time that it will be accepted. So ... where is your arguement for equal rights? I'm kinda losted.... You don't like a different term that Seems to be working that seems to be quite useful for the reason that it is a new system slowly working in. So as far as i can tell the only big hurdle is Federal tax claims... which as far as I can tell will come when the states as a majority reconnize Civil unions. So.... I think you disagreed with my point unessacarily because its not fast enough. It took a 100 years for Civil rights to be corrected... In just 10 years ... so much has changed for Homosexual rights... So be glad with what you got.... I can see your opression but don't force some one. WORK with people it goes down eazier. I'm pro gay marriage...but I'm trying to make sure marriage stays Sacred.... So... i'm done saying so. Thus this issue with Civil union is same as marriage ... its a different term just as Wedding is different for a Hindo, or some one IN Africa, or Native American Before europe arived. Its something comparable, but seperate thats totally equal. I mean there are issues even with worker rights with Seperate equal rights... like a certain guy will just get the job over another to meet a requirement ... as apose to skill but its something that happens because its an imperfect system. ... have I made a point?
A very bad one. Your blatant ignorance on the difference between civil unions and gay marriage is insulting to say the least. RE-READ this: The above is ****ing huge. You were only able to cover ONE point in the link, and that was about divorce. I should be glad with what I got? I should have had ALL the rights any other individual has many years ago. I want that ****ing cake, and I want to eat it too. Just like you are able to now.