Refinery Description: A very large symmetrical map featuring two main bases set directly across from each other, with outer walkways and a level beneath the center for multiple methods of traversing the map. Refinery is built over the water from Erosion. Play is best designed for Capture the Flag, but Big Team Slayer and King of the Hill are also applicable. There is also an Overshield that respawns every three minutes at mid-map. Updates: From my first posting of this map, I received a lot of helpful feedback, and I took the time to focus on fixing both major and minor complaints. I removed the walls surrounding the perimeter to prevent grenade spamming. I also altered the outer walkways to make them more appealing in terms of a viable way to cross the map. Connected to the outer walkways, I had a transitional piece which has now been changed into the "3 tower" building (gives a lot more cover outer walkways, and provides more options than the previous single ramp and platform). The level beneath the center has been changed drastically: where the was only a pipe system before, now I have provided a dance floor with the emphasis on the pipes greatly reduced. More dance floor has also been added to the top level through expansion and the removal of certain pieces the blocked movement than provided it. I have simplified the Ordnance Drops and removed all mongoose bikes. Lighting has been completely fixed (much appreciation for how to fix this to SilentA98). Initial Ordnance: 2x Sniper Rifle - Outer Walkway intersection inside Crate 1x Incineration Cannon - Top-Mid inside Crate 1x Over Shield - Mid-map - (3 min respawn) 2x Mini-Gun Turret - Inside each base posted at turret holes 2x Frag Grenades 2x Plasma Grenades Random Ordnance: 2x Concussion Rifle - Scattershot - Saw 4x Gravity Hammer - Needler - Saw 2x Railgun - Sticky Detonator 2x Concussion Rifle - Shotgun - Needler 1x Rocket Launcher 2x Binary Rifle 2x Sniper Rifle - Railgun Author's Notes: My second map to be posted for ForgeHub. Very interested to hear your critical observations. Screenshots: HAVING ISSUES WITH THIS WEBSITE AND POSTING NEW PHOTOS. WILL TRY TO FIX THIS SOON. Spoiler Top Down View: Inside Base View 1: Inside Base View 2: Base View: View of Middle from Base: Center of Map: Center Overview: Outer Walkway: Transition between Center and Outer Walkway: Pipes leading below: Pipes beneath Center:
I'm pretty new to this site and to forging in general, which is to say, I've only recently been noticing the desire for aesthetically pleasing structures regardless of how sound their gameplay is. So I spent some time redoing the main bases while holding together their integrity to hopefully please those who took the time to view the original. Sadly, that was very few people to begin with. Hopefully the map is more enticing this time around. I also decided to add walls surrounding the perimeter. I both like and dislike them. Would really love to get other opinions on this matter. I've only replaced a few of the pictures above for the areas changed the most so there a few differences. If that offends your sensibilities, let me know and I'll change it, but I assumed it was not an issue.
What is you problem with aesthetics. If you can make a good looking map that plays well, you are a good forger. If a map looks like ****, no one will remember it or want to play on it again. You are sounding like someone from the Halo Council. I don't get why there is this big beef between the two sites. Is this Hulter? If you have no idea what I'm referring to, check out the responses to "Panopticon" or "The Park" under standard maps. Anyway, i find it troubling that you think this site is somehow guiding forgers to forget about gameplay. When I make a map, that is number one in my mind. The structures I build to suit gameplay are the challenge. Form and Function are the name of the game.
the amount of random ordnance seems excessive for the size of the map just from looking at your screenshots. does it get too busy in the game with so many power weapons dropping around the place? i try and stick to a 'less is more' approach...but id have to run through the map to see... why did u take some of the photos before and after you added the walls? otherwise...transition between centre and outer walkway looks nice. dont know how i feel about the steep ramps top middle, do they work in-game? im new at forging, but im really getting into it and i really like to look at other peoples maps. everyone has different ideas. ill download your map and give it a run through. well picked name for the map as well. the gritty colour of erosion really suits it. hey caricature. tried out your map for a bit today...turns out the ordnance wasnt too much of a problem, as long as the players could get to them all in time...which i found difficult as i was in shoot outs and/or falling off the map all the time. Tt felt like the passage way from base to base was the only sound way of not dying by falling off the map (either by accident) or by being in a shoot out with the other players...i was always trying to look what i was stepping on and where i was going instead of paying attention to where the players were...just wasnt enough room to maneuver around unless you were in the bases or middle long hall...sorry about the negative feedback man. maybe revise the transitions from top base to the top middle and make smoother walkways so players don't get snagged on your map...i like the idea of the map, the basic layout is there. but it just needs more tweaks and a cleaner finish.
Chronmeister, I have no problem with aesthetics at all, though I will admit that my post did make it sound as if I did. Truth is, I come from a family in the Arts and I completely understand the importance of something needing to look pleasing first or it is dead in the water. What I had meant to say was that there seems to be a preference for aesthetics, more so than I had originally thought. From your post, I think you already knew that I am not "Hulter," so I'm not sure why you took the time to call that out. Is there a flame-war going on? But, please know, I agree with you rather than disagree. Zandril, I have already done my work in trying to make aesthetics better. I honestly believe I can not make it look better without deleting large chunks and making what would essentially be a new map. No, wait, scratch that; I believe I can not make it look better. Erosion is not a map that applies itself to aesthetics, but I think I have now done a decent job. Your opinion that the side bridges could use more cover is a helpful criticism. Your other comment is not, especially since you have not even described an area that is visually offensive. tom mulks, I have not had the opportunity or pleasure to play test this map as you have, but even still, I can think only of the pipes as being the perilous spots for falling off the map. But, then again, there is heavy cover for most pipe locations. What about the outer walkways as a viable method? Surely they could not have been areas where you fell repeatedly. It would be really helpful if you could send the video when you played this map, or maybe send me an invite sometime so I could join a group of yours.
The pinnacle of feedback quality on Forgehub: "Better aesthetics wouldn't hurt as well." How helpful. And it's called "either", not "as well". "As well" implies a positive.
Do you have to be an ass everywhere you go. Seriously Hulter, actually do something constructive with your time instead of raving on about how forgehub users are all terrible and how they never ever give constructive feedback.. It's not like you are doing anything better than they are given all you ever do is point out the one or two posts that don't have feedback on them.
OP, if I were you I'd fix the broken lighting. Nobody wants to play on a map with broken lighting because it tends to look really, really ugly. In terms of aesthetics, I'm not a fan. Everything blends together, the triangle pieces seem really, really out of place and the broken dynamic lighting doesn't help anything. There also appears to be very little dancefloor on the map, especially on the bottom area with the pipes (although that's just due to the pipes, and it's not a horrible idea.) The problem is that this appears to be a main walkway, and it's too much of a risk to go down there and not really worth the effort. I'd recommend putting an actual walkway down there, and then have the pipes as optional paths to take and walk around on for a quicker root. Risk vs reward is always something to keep in mind. The walkways on the outskirts of the map seem near suicidal to walk on, given very little useful cover and being very, very thing (with a wall behind it for easy nades.) The center is very very cluttered bumpy, with very few safe ways to actually get there. I don't know how it plays (as I haven't played it) but it seems rather center focused. It looks silly to move anywhere but the center, and holding the center looks like it wouldn't be too difficult. Sorry for block of text. Forgehub isn't very compatible with my web browser and I can't spread things out.
Clearly, the poster of that comment was never intending to give highly detailed feedback. That is fine, he just pointed out two things that he immediately noticed that may require some improvement. And while aesthetics are not integral to how a map plays, they help a player enjoy their time of the map. There's no reason to criticize this suggestion of adding stronger aesthetics. While I agree that it shouldn't be the focus, it should be considered. The creator of this map has also received some gameplay oriented suggestions, such as the cover suggestion that Zandril also gave. I can understand some of your frustrations when it comes to this site enjoying aesthetics. We do like them. Good aesthetics are pretty. However, there is no need for you to criticize a person who suggests a fix to both gameplay and aesthetic appeal for his aesthetic half of the comment and his word choice. I'm all for a debate and good critiques of creations and persons, though this was more attacking than helpful. Silent, there is no need to attack Hulter. Calling him an ass and the like will not help the situation. This sort of talk also has absolutely no place on the map forums. Carry on, gentlemen.
My comment wasn't meant to be a detailed review of the map. I simply pointed out the things I think could be improved on based on the screenshots. And oh dear god, I failed to use the English language. Forgive me, mein fuhrer.
This is exactly the kind of thing I told Silent not to do. it helps nothing in this argument. You can debate all you like, but there is no reason to drag insults here.
I appreciate your comments. You've offered a lot of helpful advice. Can you perhaps explain how to fix lighting issues, though?
Hulter, while I agree with your initial argument over whether or not Zandril provided useful feedback, he at least commented on my map. You have been utterly useless. In fact, you are committing a detriment to my map. It is obvious you are unsatisfied with Forgehub and its members, so I ask you this: why do you continue to come to this website? It seems more that you just want to harass people and you get enjoyment in seeing the reactions. You enjoy making people angry. Could you, maybe, find a hobby you can enjoy that doesn't affect the world in a negative way? ______________________________________________________________________________________________ My expectation is that you'll challenge me to a 1v1 now... Well, fine, I'll do it and maybe you'll beat me and then teabag my corpse and throw insults and claim your supreme masculine prowess, but what are you proving? In reality, your forgehub comments do not become any less ridiculous. But you are currently presenting that option as a viable way to "debate" with others and that, to me, is incredulous.
There should be a lighting thread somewhere on the site that you can read that'll explain it better than I ever could. All I can say is that there is an invisible "lighting budget" that we can't see, and some pieces take more effect on the lighting engine than others. The one piece I know for Erosion that causes problems is the 4x4 short. Others may consist of Wall Coliseums and the erosion pipes, but don't quote me on that because I'm not totally certain. Basically, the only way to fix it is to swap out high cost pieces (not forge money, but lighting money which we can't see, hence there's the one thread to help with that) for pieces that don't take as much of a toll on the lighting system, and hope to heck it doesn't break. Erosion is particularly bad for lighting breaking because many common pieces take a large toll on the lighting, and so map lighting breaks faster because of it. Here, use this thread: A Guide to Dynamic Lighting.
If he does challenge you, I think the best thing to do is to ignore him. Nothing good will happen over accepting his challenge. This guy is just being what he is on purpose.
If you guys do 1v1, make sure it's on enhanced radar, because that's what everyone on Forgehub wants, right? On a more serious note: Outside areas are deathtraps - especially with two snipes, base-base routes are more linear than Narrows (which was already questionable IMO), there are a couple pieces with glitched lighting that look out of place, mongooses seem useless because you need two people on one.. random ordnance is usually not good because it removes all sorts of layers of strategy and control from the game. Paper cover on the outside needs to go as it doesn't help with the outside's main apparent issue, which is being a trap. I would put some structure there or eliminate those areas entirely in favor of a less linear center bridge.
Thanks very much to those who are being helpful. I am now currently using many of your suggestions in making an update of Refinery.
I have no gripe with you, and the chances of me actually 1v1ing anyone are nonexistant. I don't even have an Xbox. I take the piss and I don't spend a lot of time on here. Hadn't been on since november up until just a while ago. I'm not an active member on forgehub. I go on here while riding the bus, hence the short posts.
Another ridiculous argument has been mostly cleaned out of this thread. Guys, if you see someone being a jerk, report and move on - don't get into pointless debates with them. As for the jerk himself, that issue will resolve itself in due time.