Gameplay footage 2v3 CTF: 2v3 CTF Updates I made to Phalanx Version 2: -Lighting Fixed -Framerate Fixed -Alleyways Added -Aesthetics upgraded -Tank/Mantis more balanced -Power weapons adjusted -Lower overall polygon count on map -Bumps fixed -Higher ceiling in main buildings New Screens Posted! Description: Hello guys, welcome to Camp Phalanx, home of the 4IBCT's FOB. This is an asymmetrical map designed for Infinity Slayer and CTF. The map is designed around a central choke point and flows in the style of the number "8." There are many ways through the chokepoint, for infantry and vehicles. Each base side is unique and designed unlike any other map... one side houses a scorpion tank, while the other holds a mantis. Scorpion vs Mantis: Some of you never had any firefights with these two behemoths going up against each other and most most assume the scorpion will own a Mantis. That is simply not the case, especially on this map, the mantis scores a higher rating in my opinion. The Mantis can take two shots from the main tank gun as well as the Scorpion being able to take 2 barrages of rockets from the Mantis. The main difference is the Scorpion packs more armor while the Mantis has higher mobility. When you pit these two against each other on this map, the Mantis will win at farther ranges, having plenty of time to see and react to incoming tank rounds. However, at close range the tank is victorious being able to be a lot more accurate and firing much faster than the mantis. Mantis vs Scorpion Additional Features: The map also features a rocket hog on each side placed closer to the center, making them harder to reach. Rocket Ordinance is located on the central bridge. Regular Hogs, Mongooses, and four turrets are also located on this map and objectively placed. Hence the name "Phalanx" for all the heavy artillery. Lots of heavy hitters but also plenty of counters. Supported Gametypes: CTF, Infinity Slayer Players: 8-16 Testing: I will be hosting testing on this map every Mon-Wed-Fri @ 8am & 10 pm U.S. Central time and other various times as well. Send me a friend request if you're interested. Feedback: Any feedback is welcome but I'm more interested in feedback regarding balance between bases and items. This can not be done from screenshots. Items Overview: -Scorpion [180] -Mantis [180] -Rocket Hogs [180] -Regular Hogs [90] -Mongooses [30] -Spartan Laser [200] -Sniper Rifle [no respawn] -SAW [220] -Shotty [220] -Turrets [180] -1 random ordinance placed on center bridge Screenshots:
I'm going to base this off of what I see from the pics, but it seems like your map is extremely cluttered, and there's a lack of solid structure throughout the map. You always do such a nice job on your map threads, and I'd love to see you put that same creativity you put into your threads as you do your maps. I can show you what I mean, if you want to add me on Live.
If you're referring to directly in front of the bases it is there specifically to keep the tank and mantis out. Since I wanted to have so many heavy hitters on this map, I wanted to favor the Infantry just as much by providing a lot of cover, especially in front of the base. I want to keep the vehicles going in that "8" pattern like I talked about in the description. If you are referring to something else, I'll be on later and I'll add you. Watch the video to see the hog and scorpion drive through the map to get a better view and understanding of the map. Edit: I just wanted to add that you stated it look cluttered but needed more structure? Isn't that contradicting? Don't really know what you mean by overall structure. The map is very large and designed to be a FOB (forward operating base). Phalanx features two large multi-story buildings, two bases, two bunker houses, as well reienforced structure, machine gun nests, trenches, etc and a road going throughout with various intersections. Don't know where you're getting at with overall structure? Also I'm sorry you don't think the map is very creative but I strongly disagree. I put in as much if not more creative thought into my map with the asymmetric layout, the mantis vs scorpion base design and the very realistic look of a FOB. It's not designed to look like a "Artistic Arena" as you will. It's designed to look like a FOB and that I think it does very well. Please be easy to judge of FOB's if you never served and been deployed before.
I'm tired of people making baseless 'suggestions' about maps and haven't even played them. The same goes for people saying the map is awesome without having even downloaded it yet. I'll check the map out and get back on here after I've had a chance to check it out.. for real.
I think this looks pretty incredible actually. Kinda Halo 2 big team-ish. I can't wait to try it out.
This is an insane improvement from your first map that you previewed, so nice job. I'll be interested to see if you pulled off a good balance between infantry and vehicles, because it so damn hard to do.
Don't know if I did either but will do as many changes as I need to I get to the point where I feel the vehicles only have a slight advantage at most. There is a crap ton of cover, including trenches to favor the infantry. I may need to add a initial rocket ordinance near each base like on "Standoff." I wanted to test it with this layout first and I can't wait.
Looks great, my only concern (without playing it that is) being one team gets a tank and the other gets a Mantis. My initial thought is that the tank has the advantage.
Yeah, I think the Mantis actually has the advantage from gameplay. They both take each other down evenly (2 tank shots & 2 rocket barrages). Tank has a bit more armor but the Mantis makes up for it in mobility. It's like a wild wild west showdown on main street between these two on this map. As long as the mantis keeps its distance, the tank round can be easily tracked and avoided with time to spare with its advantage on mobility. I actually think the Mantis' rockets travel faster than the tank round and the tank has trouble moving out of the way, however the tank fires twice as fast. It's a very interesting showdown. Edit: It's like the matrix, but with rockets and tank rounds instead of bullets, lol.
Good point. It really depends on the map and how you restrict the scorpion's movement, because if it is scorpion vs mantis with no other variables, scorpion will win every time. The only advantage the mantis has is its mobility. If you favor paths towards the mantis, it could possibly be balanced. As for this map, the only way to make sure there is a balance between the two is to test.
Now this, is an map that i will love, i can already tell.. This is actually the first competitive map that i have seen, that features an Scorpion, my favorite UNSC vehicle. You have chosen an good place to build it with the skybox, it looks beautiful (Picture 2) and the aesthetics are pretty nice, it really feels like an active space command camp, equiped with heavy forces. I see that some people doubt that the Mantis will defeat the Scorpion, but i think you are right, with what you have explained. The tank will land 2 shots, then the Mantis will die.. however with 2 rocket barrages the Scorpion will die, aside from that the Mantis also has an machine gun, the scorpion too, but then an teammate must decide to join the Scorpion. But one thing though, i think its just the other way around. The Scorpion wins from long ranges, and the Mantis dominates in close ranges. The Tank shots land pretty quickly, it won't be easy to dodge those. And if an Mantis comes close to the Scorpion, the Scorpion must have to turn, and then the Mantis can try to foot-stomp him to death, and fire with both the weapons. Most people would just give both the teams exactly the same equipment, so i can see why you decided to change it up, and i like it. I can already see the two beasts fight against each other, with infantry trying to help their one, and warthogs backing up the fight and eventually, if the two are down, start an new wave of attack until the Mantis and Scorpion are deployed again. The trenches and sideways for the Infantry to dodge those attacks, and when lucky, overpower the vehicles. I really think this will play great for CTF, I need to try this. Hope i can make it in one of your lobbys, possibly Friday. Big effort in the thread again, and again, much appreciated. Where were you all this time, keep on going, beast maps right here.
I'm glad you enjoy that aspect and the idea behind the map as much as I do. I can't wait to play a lot of games on this myself and get some gameplay footage. If I don't have you added yet I will send you a FR and be sure to send you a invite if I see you on when I test.
Cluttered pieces, and structure to a map are two different things. Like I said, I will show you what I mean. [br][/br]Edited by merge: Oh, be quiet. I said I was basing what I see off of screenshots which clearly means I can't be sure. I'm allowed to make 'suggestions' off of what I see. That's part of giving feedback.
This looks rather interesting. I haven't been able to play the map yet or go int forge, as I have no xbox access at the moment, but I saw a lot I liked in the video and the pics. While it might not all be accurate because of this, here are my initial thoughts: I like the vibe the map gives off. You've pulled off a very good urban theme, and I agree with others that it feels very Halo 2 esque. As for cluttered pieces, I see what Eightball means to an extent, but then again, this is a BTB map and sacrifices have to be made when picking parts. From that perspective it's not such an issue. The Mantis - Tank face off makes me a little nervous, as I just built a map facing off a Mantis and a Wraith, and even with a significant off spawn height advantage for the Mantis and the slower/ harder to aim shot of the Wraith the two are just barely balanced. We'll have to see what actually happens, but I feel like it would be pretty hard to dodge a person decent with a Scorpion. A lot of the paths look good around the map for infantry, but the choke point for vehicles might prove an issue. With plasma pistols, grenades, and the ordnance on map a vehicle is an easy target if it tries to push through, and even if it get's through it can end up isolated with no escape route. The tank or Mantis would probably be less affected, as it is more productive to play a defensive role in them or to use them to push an enemy team out of an area. The Warthogs however need to have the ability to push up more, and with the Halo 4 sandbox they ned to rely on hit and run/ defensive tactics more than ever. It might be a good idea to watch how vehicles interact on the map, because that layout looks bad for them on paper. I'm not entirely sure, but it looked like in the video that the map had broken lighting, or light-derping. Some shadows were okay, but a lot of them appeared as you got closer to them or looked at a certain area, especially inside of buildings. You used a lot of Station Corridors, which are really hard on the lighting system, so to fix this I would suggest replacing some with Coliseum Walls, Blocks, or other low-poly count parts. I'll be interested to play this sometime when I get back from break.
lol@robo. From the pictures and the video, I think I am liking this one more than Strongside. Plus points for realist geometry and uniqueness. I do agree with Shoe on the vehicle balance and Eightball on clutter. As for weapon times, it seems strange to put the Shotgun and the Rocket Launcher on identical times. Setting the Assault Rifle to 90 seconds also sounds high. I have a hunch that your map might be breakable to some extent as well. You can jump on top of those big crates (sorry for lack of specificity, I don't use them often so I don't remember the name of the piece itself) from the bottom using little protrusions on the sides. The crate type I'm talking about is at 7:35 in your video.
Very good point to bring up on the choke point for vehicles. I'll have to see gameplay wise first before I think about adding an additional route for vehicles but you deffinitely brought it to my attention. As for the lighting and corridors, the map is way to big o have dynamic lighting working right, it would have to be downgraded quite a bit. As for the walls, I used up all walls, all impact items, all bridges, pretty much everything except inclines, so that's out of the question as well. Very useful feedback and much appreciated! The map has a invisible ceiling so it's not breakable. You can't go any higher than 90% the height of the corridors used as walls. As for weapon spawn times, I just need to test out times and even if I need to switch the weapons out entirely, that's just testing that needs to be done. The vehicle choke point has been brought to my attention but with the clutter - I'm using it to favor the game towards the ground troops and to help support a higher player count.
If you're going for a high player count, putting clutter where structure could go is probably not the best solution. The issue with clutter is that it allows players to hide more "cheaply" than structure (if you understand what I mean) and it also makes geometry more awkward than it needs to be (for instance, there's that one crate in a small building that serves a pretty minimal purpose but blocks off much of the path through the building - Sorry for not providing an exact time.. I actually have to hop off the PC very soon....).
I'd be interested to work with the part usage on the map. Mock, Duck, and I have been building BTB maps for a long time, and we've never found a map too big to get rid of frame rate or light-derping on. It might take less than you'd think to fix it, the trick will just be getting a few walls back. I'll take a look at it once I get back next week.