Mirage

If you send me a msg on XBL I will give you some feedback.

From the pictures, my only complaint would be the object palette. I've seen this combination of objects done to death. I would experiment with object and see what you could come up with to make it stand out instead of blend in.

 

Ok so the other day you were hounding me for judging a map based on it's aesthetics and not by gameplay. Well this map plays great. I've played a good 10-15 matches with eightball and other people. His main worry while making this map was gameplay, not aesthetics. And either way it is still a very nice looking map

 

I can't comment on gameplay because the layout has a lot of depth. With that being said, I have seen many maps with the exact same palette. An original palette would only make this map better.

Gameplay is always #1, but that doesn't mean that you ignore the aesthetic aspect of a map.

Do not call me out. I don't want to deal with you any more.
From now on you don't talk to me, I don't talk to you.

 

The structures you put in this map work together so simply yet so creatively. The architecture seems so advanced but also very natural. It is hard to make such a well designed map while also making it so fun to play on. Maps like this make the game better.

The gameplay is amazingly competitive but you have to explore the map a little before you get the hang of it.

One of my favorite parts was the bridges/ 2nd level walkways.....

 

My palette with terrace was to use 2x4s everywhere. I've never seen a map that uses them like I did. Ever. And I don't care if the name has been used.

If you want me to show you some maps with the palette, I'll be more than happy to.

I never said your map lacks aesthetic appeal, I said it lacks original aesthetic appeal.

That is the wrong attitude. You should want to find every miniscule problem and improve it to make your map reach its highest potential.

You came off a little rude, but it's alright. I guess not evreybody has the same perfectionist mentality I have when it comes to map design.

 

Actually frozen he was referring to not wanting to talk to me. He started trolling me the other day about commenting about how good a maps aesthetics were, and not commenting on gameplay. And he was talking about how gameplay is always first over aesthetics. Now he's commenting on a map complaining about lack of aesthetics when it obviously isn't. And eightball has to be one of the biggest perfectionists I know. I can't even tell you how many matches I played on this before it was released eightball took every suggestion and idea and tried it at least once. If your just going to troll on forgehub because you can't make a map with such a beautiful blend of looks and gamplay then please go over to xforgery.com so I don't have to listen to you dis good maps.

 

I was talking about Khaos dumshit.

I said perfectionist mentality. All that means is I try to make my maps reach their highest potential.

Do not jump in to an argument you have no part of, kid.

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You just said people try too hard to find miniscule problems, which means you do not want to know the flaws on your map. You want them to say "wow looks amazing! great map" so you can feed your ego.

You didn't pick objects to fit the theme, you picked objects that were convenient and common.

I'm sorry, I thought you were a passionate map designer, this is my last post here.

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Trolling you? I call you out because you were talking about how good of a forger you are.

I didn't say it lacks aesthetics. If you're going to quote me, do it right.

If he is one of the biggest perfectionists you know, you don't know many passionate forgers.

That's great that he takes suggestions, now he needs to learn how to take constructive criticism. Even if it seems harsh.

 

Sorry lack of aesthetic ORIGINALITY. Let's look at terrace. 2by4's as a floor. Oh how original. I will agree 8ball has used popular peices. But his outer walling is beyond original. Did I say original enough. It's much harder to balance an asymmetric map than a symmetrical one. And what it seems your complaining about is your own personal preference. Eightball only gets praised after weeks of criticism and rigorous playing of his maps. He only posts his maps after he has thought of every last detail. Maybe I'm not Webster but that's perfection to me. Im not sure why your not able to just complement eightball about something he's worked long and hard to get to.

 

Complimenting people on their map does not help them improve their map in any way. It just boosts their ego.

Perfect example: You tell Redemption how awesome his maps are, I tell him the flaws. He asks me to show him them in forge, and I do. His map flows much better now, and looks better. I also helped him out with a soon to be released map. Your kind words did nothing for his map.

We are done, OK? It's a solid map, but I could have helped him improve it.

 

I did say it was my last post, but when people post something directed at me, I have to respond.

I told you that if you inv me to walk around on the map, we could discuss the map and I may have some useful feedback.

The palette of a map is not miniscule at all, It completely changes the atmosphere of the map and the experience people have on the map.

I call people names when it's necessary.

 

And it never is necessary, as for the palette of a map is useless to say such a thing because that is based upon personal opinion, it is in the eye of the beholder of the final image and not the little details (Aesthetically speaking). Just becuase the map has a certain style that you feel has used before, look at it in this perspective: He maybe the first person to see it in HIS mind, his map style is apparent in all his maps, HIS maps. Understand where the idea stems from.

I don't like to take sides here but I have to stand with eightball here, by you trying to fight over this tells me that your letting your ego get in the way and letting personal opinion be your drive.

As for the map, it is fantastic. I haven't had the time to do tests but me and kaos will be doing so tomorrow. You speak of complimenting someone like it is feeding ego, I see it as encouragement. be more optimistic and don't let anger get the best of you. You to kaos, chill a little and we can all get along better. That is my 2 cents, please don't take this as banter but an exchange of wisdom from one friend to another.

 

Enough, this discussion has gone far enough, map posts are not the location for personal debates. Take it to VM's, PM's or XBL. Anything regarding this argument from here on out will be dealt with appropriately.

 

Oh, well thanks ♥ lol

I have come to realize that I never commented on this. I have no idea why. This is a map that I recommend to DL and try. It's a pretty fun competitive map for a 2v2/1v1. When you get a working xbox Eightball, we need to play this and a lot more other maps. Maybe I can finally beat you at a 1v1 lol... I like the use of the 2x4 flooring. Cleaner, better for overlapping objects, and less glass.

 

So I've been kind of a hermit in that I've been browsing Forgehub for a long while only recently creating an account. I feel the need to tell you this to explain why I haven't yet commented on one of your great maps. To make up for lost time, I'm going to give you an extremely in depth review of Mirage.

First of all, not that I need to tell you this, but in my opinion you are one of the most talented forgers in the Halo Reach community. With every map you post you get considerably better at the craft.

Aesthetic wise, this map is absolutely beautiful. I skimmed over the most recent comments and saw that the subject of originality came up. From what I got between the odd bickering was something about a common object "palette?" This is so ridiculous, and here's why: There are only so many objects in Reach's forge to use, and even fewer pieces with real character (aren't just flat blocks). Every map made in Reach's map editor are going to use similar pieces, and probably in a similar way a lot of the time. The idea that you should limit your "palette" to only an original combination of pieces would mean limiting you to only the ugly combinations of pieces.

You of all people stretch the limits of forge in an amazing way. When playing your maps I almost forget that I'm playing a forge made map, which is something that is very rare. Your most recent maps you have forged each have their own unique feel and atmosphere, and Mirage is no different. Again, the "originality of your palette" being brought up as an issue boggles my mind. I hope you don't take aesthetic complaints to heart because in my opinion, that is one area of design you have absolutely down. I think you know that, though .

I could go on and on about what is great about your aesthetic design for Mirage, but I feel like you have such a great understanding on the subject anything I say is going to be old news for you. Everyone knows that the game play is the most important aspect of map creation though, so enough about aesthetics.

Before I start I think it's worth noting that I'm definitely not an expert on 1v1 or 2v2 maps, as I pretty much exclusively play 4v4. I have played my fair share of doubles but I haven't spent a huge amount of time in the playlist. I don't know if that will be relevant or not but there you go.

I know game play is something you have been working hard on improving, and I'm kind of sad to read that you don't think of yourself as a map "designer" but more of a map "forger." With every map you create you make great strides in the design. You seem like a really talented guy and I think you will soon become just as proficient at the game play design as you are with the aesthetics. I mean, you already have a great understanding in the subject, but I think people hold you to a higher standard because your forging is so perfect people feel as though the game play should be just as perfect.

The map was really one of, if not your best from a game play point of view (only perhaps rivaled by Elysium). The layout was very fun to play with plenty of cover and an interesting multi-level design. Perhaps this is just my preference or opinion, but a lot of small map's layouts are too open and are just a DMR/Sniper fest. You're layout and design is great enough to where the use of, say, a spiker is a viable defense using good strategy.

I am a big fan of the teleporter and the level it leads too. I feel like a lot of forgers who critique forges are too harsh on the idea of a power area on a map such as this one. The teleporter area IS powerful, but not over-powerful. Your map is balanced in a way that staying in that spot severely sacrifices the ability to keep weapon control. With good strategy, the defensively playing duo that owns the teleporter area can easily be taken out.

Just a few things bothered me about area design that were really quite minor. The upside-down antenna piece that holds the grenade-launcher and the grenades is kind of annoying. Sometimes I'll be in an intense DMR battle or strafing and I get caught on the little boogers. I'm all for obstructions every once in a while but they are just so small they are hard to notice during the heat of battle. Aesthetically they are very nice, but in my opinion, the annoyance factor out weighs the aesthetic appeal. Dunno, maybe I'm the only one with this issue.

Also, I was quite puzzled about the out-of-bounds portion of the rocky areas of the map. I think I know why you did what you did -- to prevent people from hiding in the crevices of the rocks perhaps? If this is the case, I just don't see this as being much of a problem. I mean, any decent player is going to find the players camping in those little spots in no time and destroy them. I thought this was an extremely odd aspect to the map and I did not like how it worked into the flow at all. Perhaps I'm wrong. If so, I still think you should consider a design change because a soft kill area in the middle of the map in an area that is basically the same level as the base level is just too weird. I go by this philosophy: if it doesn't feel like it should be out of bounds, then it probably shouldn't be out of bounds.

I did feel like that spawns were pretty predictable, but the map was so small I think you did the best possible with the placements. Perhaps this is something you should think about in the beginning stages of designing your next map.

Weapon choice and placement was really quite perfect. The spiker was really ingeniously incorporated to the map and showed a great understanding of strategy and game flow. The grenade launcher and sniper is a great combination because, as you mentioned earlier, the combination encourages strategy among team mates as the two weapons with one player doesn't work too well.

Lastly, frame rate lag was non-existent. The map played perfectly on my machine largely because there was very little glass used.




Hopefully I was of some help. Thanks for the great map and I'm looking forward to your future projects!

 

I've been wondering about this too actually, the first few games I had on this map I never went in those areas so I didn't notice the soft kill zone. What was the thinking behind that decision? I remember Elysium has similar rocky 'buffers' which I liked, but they didn't have soft kill zones and it's very unintuitive to the player to have a kill zone in an area that like Roos says, is literally at the sameish level as the floor. It felt like a glitch or something you'd forgotten to remove rather than a coherent part of the map.

 

I love the look of this map. It looks both simple and intricate at the same time. I must give it a dl. The design of it and lines of sight look awesome. Is it just a two level map or is it more than what is depicted in the pictures? Hell, I'll just download it.

 

Usually I try my hardest to give constructive critism for maps I look at. The only thing I can say about this map is "Its perfect!" I really don't see any flaws in this map and it is my favorite of your maps. I really like the enclosed design with the rock pits and railings. I think you should consider building a bigger version of this map for 4 on 4's though.