On your point about going against 7 swimmers as opposed to a PGA tournament, Phelps is also going against the most elite athletes from around the globe too. Some of these people eat, sleep, breathe swimming. And quite frankly, if we're talking about sheer peer-to-peer talent in each his own field of play, not publicity, I'd say tiger hasn't reached phelps' status yet. The man couldn't be more dominant, he goes 3/4 speed in the first few heats just to he can shatter records in the final heat and win gold and even at 3/4 pace he still places top 3 consistently. Just you watch, Phelps is gonna put swimming on the map real fast at this pace. But who's to say tiger's not a dominant athlete as well? He won a PGA championship with a torn ACL (but even then, golf puts a lot less strain on you then swimmng does, trust me I've done both and so has my cousin) at at times when tiger seemed to struggle, he would show his pain but whenever he'd sink that crucial birdie/eagle putt, he'd start jumping around like a 5 year old at christmas. As far as publicity goes, Tiger beat's all, it's known fact the man makes more money than any other athlete (or at least he used to) but when it comes to sheer dominance in each his own's field, Phelps wins hands down.
well as far as phelps 'pace' he's pretty much done on the big scene. yeh there will be world championships and nationals and what not in the coming years, but no one really watched those at all, and this is his last olympics most likely. But i agree, endorsements aside, Phelps tops Tiger in the complete sport dominance category. Oh yeh, I forgot...Speedo is offering Phelps 1 Million dollars if he wins the eighth gold medal.
There is no way Michael Phelps puts swimming on the map like basketball, football, soccer, etc. Mark Spitz won 7 golds in the Olympics, and it wasn't put on the map. Phelps and swimming (and the other notorious Olympic events such as gymnastics, volleyball, track and field) will have their glory for the month, but after that, no one will care until 2012. How can you say Tiger isn't at a Phelps status when he has been dominating the sport for 10 years while Phelps has only done so at two events? I do not doubt that Phelps is facing the top competition in the world like Tiger, but how many of those actually pose legitimate threats to the field of a golf tournament. I really can't say it better myself, so I am going to quote someone from a sports site I read: You also have to take in to account that different course and natural conditions play to different golfers advantages while a pool is always a pool, and Tiger still manages to dominate despite the many extraneous variables that do not occur in swimming since you are just swimming in a straight line in a indoor facility. You say you have played golf, but have you played golf with a broken leg or torn ACL much less won? It is obvious that you don't play much (if at all) because your lower body has a lot to do with the outcome of your stroke. You are right that swimming takes more strain with an injury like that, but has Michael Phelps won an event with a torn ACL or broken leg? No and thus that argument is irrelevant. Even though comparing a swimmer to a golfer will never work, I will put my money on a guy that has gone through adversity and won for 10 years to a guy that is having his way with one or two events.
Well I have something to add here. Michael Phelps is genetically blessed. By that I mean, he was born an athlete. He has double jointed knees which is pretty uncommon but not super rare, he has double jointed ankles, and he has hyper extended shoulders. The double jointed knees and ankles alow his body to be more flat and act like a flipper, when he does the dolphin kick his feet are almost parallel to his legs. But all of his genetics only help him a small bit. He has a 1200 calorie daily diet and trains harder than any other swimmer (presumably). So really what it comes down to for Phelps is dedication, hard work, and what not. And as far as the whole Tiger vs. Phelps thing, I think Phelps is more dominate. Here is why: Phelps swims (obviously), the thing about swimming is that it is and has been consistently, a simple sport. Over the years swimming has not evolved like golf has. Swimming is pure human ability whereas for golf, evolution of clubs and equipment plays a role. Mark Spitz was the most dominant swimmer of all time until Phelps overtook him; Jack Nicholas was the most dominant golfer until Tiger overtook him. The difference is that Tiger has always been playing with new technologically advanced clubs and Jack had less advanced clubs and balls. Michael Phelps however has nothing more advanced than Spitz ever had except possibly goggles and the suit. It is argualbe that Nicholas could beat tiger had he had the same technology, but in Phelp's case we can rest assured that he could and has beaten Spitz. -The End p.s. probably my longest post ever
Is the suit Phelps is wearing not technologically advanced also? Equipment isn't the only different from Spitz's days. Training regimens have also advanced from then. We now know exactly what to eat/drink before, after, and during workouts. Phelps consumes not 1200 but 12000 calories a day. I don't know how you can assume that Phelps is the hardest worker just because he is the best swimmer. At one point in your argument, you said Michael Phelps was born a gifted athletes, and later, you say that Phelps is successful because of his dedication. Which one is it? Although Tiger is an exceptional athlete, golf is a sport that take minimal athletic ability and is all about repetitions and muscle memory. All pro golfers have to have/have had incredible work ethics to become pro no matter how gifted they are. If swimming hasn't evolved, how can you explain the broken records in nearly every event? The pools are changing (faster), suits are getting better, and the athletes now know how to train properly. Also, nearly all of the swimmers are over 6'4". Early on in the Olympics, the commentators were talking about just how much swimming has evolved.
The pools are changing, but they aren't changing from day to day. My point is that Tiger has a 4 day tournament where he can face the different elements while you know what you are getting from a certain pool. The different pool speeds don't play to an advantage/disadvantage to certain swimmers because they are all going the same speed while a windy day on the golf course can favor someone who has a good short game and doesn't favor someone like Woods who hits it high and far. As for the pool being faster, read this.
Actually, Speedo owes Phelps already, because the deal was if he tied Mark Spitz (and wore a speedo cap in each of the races) he would get 1 million.
Gah.. so many points to address. Alright well first of all I did mention that the swimsuits are advancing but you cannot say that a modernized swimsuit is more helpful than modernized golf clubs and golf balls respectively; this is my point as to how swimming has not and could not evolve as much or as fast as golf can and has. I am not saying swimming hasn't changed since Spitz's time, I'm just saying it hasn't changed dramatically. Certainly not as dramatically as golf has; hence, Tiger Woods' advantage. Oh yeah and about Michael Phelps. I did say he was a born athlete, and yes I did say he has had to work to achieve his dominance but why can't it be both. By born athlete I simply meant he was born with an athletic body (double jointed knees, ankles, shoulders..etc). It is not like you can be born with phenomenal athletic genes and not work hard and yet still be a great athlete. so yeah... and the 1200 thing was a typo, sorry.
Your argument that swimming hasn't evolved as much as golf is very opinionated. I am not necessarily saying that I think swimming has changed more, but the stats say it has changed more because golfing records aren't being broken left and right like swimming.
I watched him swim last night. He won his 7th gold medal in this Olympics by .01 seconds! That's one hundredth of a second. Unbelievable.
that half-stroke was the difference. I think he knew he was going to lose if he didnt try it. He gambled, and it payed off bigtime.
I think he's amazing. Its strange that he's clean yet almost superhuman. I wonder how long he has been a swimmer.
Michael Phelps is neither. He is a machinima. And it gets worse. His parents made him in Gears of War!
True true, but when I think of golf records I can only conjure up two things: Longest drive and longest put. I don't think you can judge the evolution of a sport on simply records because for golf, I think the measure of it's advancement is simply the improvement in players' all around game-play whereas swimming in contrast is pretty straight forward regarding records. Sorry if that was poorly worded, I hope you understand what I'm saying. [Edit] I just thought of something. I think that evolution of skill in golf can be accurately measured by a player's handicap. I'm not sure if the average pro's handicap has improved dramatically over the years but I think that with advances in clubs and balls it definitely has.
Yup, he broke the record for most gold medals in an Olympics with his 8th gold medal today in the 4x100 relay. Basically, he is the greatest Olympian ever.
Like the balls and clubs improving, courses are also becoming increasingly difficult, which is why the scores are so low. If you are under par, you can win a major now a days, and that was not the case during the Nicklaus days. There are tons of records that can be broken: number of majors won, number of tournaments won, lowest round, etc. Like all sports, swimming is changing because there will always be a better suit, ball, technique, etc.
i personally think that the fact that records are broken all the time in swimming is a testament to just how incredibly competitive the sport is. And the fact that Phelps is head and shoulders above everyone else is the most convincing argument in the Tiger/Phelps debate. Oh, and number of majors is definitely the measuring stick in golf. Anyway, Phelps is the greatest Olympian of all-time... and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon. Big ups, Phelpsy.