Long Way To Go

Discussion in 'Reach Casual Maps' started by Percussionist, Feb 2, 2012.

  1. Percussionist

    Percussionist Forerunner

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    Large map, intended to primarily support sniping and vehicle battles; 1 flag CTF in mind.

    Walk through on YouTube:
    Long Way To Go - YouTube

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I would also very much appreciate help in getting 7v7 or 8v8 matches on this map.

    Thank you!
     
  2. REMkings

    REMkings BIOC
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    Let me begin with saying that I like how you focussed a lot on Jetpack usage. I don't see a lot of maps anymore that rate the jetpack at its true value but that is the case in this map.
    Now some constructive criticism:

    When I watched the video, at first I thought "sloppy forging but sounds like a mature commentator (no offence though, just saying). Then it came to my mind that the reason for the simplistic forging could have been that otherwise you wouldn't have been able to cover whole Forge World. Because I noticed that you used all of the budget.
    Anyway, most people are not a big fan of playing CTF on entire Forge World. The rounds are too long, it takes a lot of time and effort to steal the flag, to carry it to your homebase and to score. But most of all there is a weapon and vehicle surplus on this map.
    There are more reasons why should keep away from using all of Forge World for a map, because there are more hazards behind it and you run quite a risk. A short summary of some of them:
    - You lose oversight of the map
    - It will be very easy to camp outside of the scenes of battle and by doing so breaking the game
    - It takes so long to cross the map that people will start quitting
    - It is really difficult to get a hold of both your opponents and the flag: the distance is simply too long
    - You have to invest a lot of money to ensure that transportation is enabled at all places
    - And this way you cannot use it for aesthetics anymore

    As regards the vehicles: Usually you want to use a falcon as a vehicle based on teamwork, but by putting so many of them at the initial spawns you encourage people to go solo. As far as the banshee spawns for the attackers go: Keep it to one banshee only with a long respawn time, to prevent excessive usage. Also, this way it's more of a reward if you succeed in getting it. Other than removing all of the banshees except one, you should also place it at the initial spawns of the attackers. This way you kill not two but three birds with one stone, because this way..
    1. you can save a lot of money on the route to the original spawn
    2. now it's a lot more clarifying what the attackers have at their disposal since they can see the banshee without having to look around first.
    3. and finally if one guy picks the falcon the other attackers are almost forced to work together and use the falcon(s). Believe me, teamwork will only do good to the gameplay.

    Other than the things above, using the sniper nests isn't a good idea either: the temptation to camp in there and get dozens of kills is huge and it restrains from the actual goal: either defending the flag or obtaining it. The fact that you can almost see the entire playground from the sniper nests in your map and the fact that someone inside one of a sniper nest barely has to be afraid of threatening opponents makes the temptation even bigger. I'd get rid of the rocket launchers in those areas anyway, as they are way less effective than the sniper for those spots, and it makes it way too easy to eliminate air attacks. I'd put them elsewhere on the map, where both attackers and defenders have a fair and equal chance of getting them. Other than that, I'd keep it to one or maybe two rocket launchers at max.

    Also, you can't have both sniper nests and scorpions, because if someone is positioned in one of the sniper nests and he notices that there is an opponent in a scorpion, all he has to do is to fire two wellplaced rockets on their way to the tank and they will do the rest. After all, the tank can't move, so there's no way he could dodge them. I'd recommend to remove either all of the sniper nests or all of the scorpions. I think it's best to delete the sniper nests, because of all of the reasons mentioned above. On top of that, I really like the way you used the tanks, it was a smart move to prevent them from getting close to the battlefield and blocking most of its lines of sight. However, it takes way too long to get to one of the scorpions and when you're finally there, you're save and it's too difficult for opponents to take you out unless they have a banshee (or maybe a rocket hog). My suggestion is to use a two-way node teleporter, and to place one of them at the scorpion and the other one at the far end of the defending base. This way a defender can easily get there and back again if he wants to, but at the same time he's never totally save since opponents could breach the base and discover the teleporter too. It will also give you another boost of extra objects and money to use. I'd recommend putting a soft kill zone on both teleporters so you can't block them off by camping on top of them.

    Even though your budget is practically gone and you're broke, I would really try and add more aesthetics to your map. Aesthetics are the way to convince people to download your map without knowing how it plays yet. By the way a map looks most people can approximately tell how much time and effort the creator put in his map. And even though I can tell by your commentary that there's a thought behind every item, it still looks like you have just been messing around (no offence, really). Like I said, most of the sniper nests and platforms are useless if you follow my tips. If you remove those, you can use the regained budget for creating aesthetics and make the other buildings look better. If you also keep it to a smaller part of Forge World, you can save a lot of money on the vehicles, man cannons and other ways of transport.
    This new money can be spent on extra cover (I noticed that there's very few cover and places to hide for flying bullets), and once again on extra aesthetics


    So, to sum things up:
    - less vehicles
    - less weapons and less power weapons
    - more cover
    - get rid of the sniper nests
    - improve upon the scorpion system
    - add more aesthetics
    - use a way smaller part of Forge World
    - balance things out, make power weapons and vehicles accessible for both parties, or maybe give the attackers easier access to the sniper and defenders easier access to the rocket launcher or vice versa
    - remove the grids and kill balls, they look really sloppy and unprofessional according to most people

    To give an impression of a very balanced and good looking Capture the Flag map, take a look at this map.
    There is a fair chance for the attackers to capture the flag, but it's definitely not too easy which is good, also the spawns are excellent, aesthetics look great, vehicles are present but definitely not overpowered, weapons are spread around the map and not OP either, etc.

    Finally, take a close look at this. It will help you to make a map balanced for all players. And I really recommend testing your map a lot, until it's 100% perfect in the eyes of most of the testers.

    I hope my tips helped you and I hope you'll take them into consideration, good luck with this map and any future projects.
     

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