Forgers, take a look at this: A month after the thread has been posted, and there are only 8 posts in the matchmaking submission thread for Breakout on Waypoint. And of those 8 posts, there's only 4 new submissions. This is 343's new gametype, one they'd be thrilled to see Forger support for - but with the map pool so far, we're missing out on a huge opportunity for getting more community maps into matchmaking. That's where you come in. We want you to forge Breakout maps with us. We think that if we get enough community maps into that thread, we can get 343 to start a new Breakout playlist with minimal amounts of plzing the Barvo. Let's try to get 30 quality maps submitted by September 5th. We've got 10 maps in the works ourselves, but when the whole community gets involved, the quality bar gets set so much higher. And, if/when 343 does decide to do a refresh of the Community Breakout playlist, we'd all benefit from the extra variety of having more than 7 maps submitted for the playlist. I'm interested but... Spoiler We know Breakout out isn't universally loved. But Forging Breakout maps is actually a pretty great experience. Due to their size, the maps are easier to finish, and because the aesthetic is somewhat built in, you can spend more time building tight gameplay. And, you've got less competition for recognition since the current Breakout pool is relatively small. You can also go "off meta" when making your map. Try Breakout Arena settings; @MartianMallCop convinced us to give them a shot a few weeks ago and we ended up loving how it played on both disc maps and our "Breakout Classic" designs. There's tons of unexplored potential for asymmetric maps, dynamic geometry between rounds, sandbox expansions using REQ weapons... the list goes on. If you want to participate but don't know where to start, post here and I'll throw you a challenge concept. For starters, I bet Nitroo would give you a Forge cookie if you built a cool Attack & Defend-style Breakout map.... Lobby for Testing Another benefit to us all doing this at once is that there will be a lot of lobbies and other forgers able to bring feedback to your maps - that means faster iteration time and better maps over all. If you have a map to get tested, post your GT and Map name here in this thread. Lobby starts at 8pm PST and will run for up an hour and a half! Lobby Rules Spoiler 1) People who attend the lobby will be given priority over those that don't. 2) We'll be doing 4v4 lobbies. If you'd like to bring your own Breakout variant, feel free. 8 player Multi-Team configurations are fair game, too. 3) You may post your GT in this thread to get first invites for the night - if we can't get you in the party within 5 minutes of start time, we'll begin looking for other players. Thursday, August 11th's Lobby List: Spoiler Sn1p3r C - Thermal Beta Fame28 - Map TBD Randy 355 - Map TBD TL;DR -Forge a Breakout map. -Don't like Breakout or need an idea of where to start? Try "off-meta" or ask Sn1p3r C for a challenge concept. -Bring your map to my Thursday test lobbies at 8pm PST -Submit your map to Halo Waypoint's Breakout thread by September 5th.
Overall good idea, however the whole problem is, even if 343 decides to add another set of new Breakout maps, nothing is going to change. Just an assumption here, but the Breakout playlist seems to be one of the less popular playlists in Halo 5, maybe even the most unpopular one. Why is that? Well, it seems like players around the world don't enjoy it as much as they could, right? It should be 343's job to find those factors and eliminate them. I mean, why don't they orientate themselves towards two of the most popular and successful elimination games, CS:GO and GoW? Nobody wants to get wrecked by a BR in Breakout, so why not exlude such weapons, if not all weapons? With the Magnum and the SMG at the start we already got two different kinds of weapons for different ranges. Furthermore Breakout's gameplay would get more competitive and complex with the deletion of power weapons. As of now, 343 doesn't want to change anything about Breakout from ground up, and that is the problem. That's where I come speaking about your idea, which is great, but doesn't change anything about the current situation. A change needs to start either on 343's side (would be the best thing, if they do it right) or the forgers' side (which possibly could change something in 343's mindset). However, when I look at CF's new list of Breakout maps for example, I see that the forgers don't want a change either it seems. Nine out of the ten maps look the same. Junglerock was the only map, which didn't use the classic Breakout aesthetic. Even if you say, "but the layouts are completely different from each other and deliver unique playstyles", people will still say, "it's the same thing over and over". 90% of the players are no forgers and see layout differences, it's the look of the maps that they care about, and if all Breakout maps look the same, there comes a point, when the players base is not interested anymore. That's what obviously happened to the Breakout playlist. So if people are gonna send in those 30 maps and only 4 of them are of a different, more fresh and unique artpass, 343 gets the impression that the players still want the same kind and style of maps for Breakout, and ignore those four maps. As a result, the playlist only changes a little bit, which will not help the player count at all. Don't get me wrong about all this, I dearly wished, Breakout would play a bigger role in the further growing population of Halo 5, however the current state and your idea just do not let that happen, unfortunately. 343 stated that population-wise Halo 5 is comparable to Halo 3, which I still can not believe. Breakout however is neglectable in regards of player counts. That needs to be changed.
I love Breakout but I could see why it's not as popular as other playlists. Now that Halo is back in the competitive scene, any different gametypes are going to be pushed to the side since they're not core gametypes. I've always enjoyed Breakout though and would love to see and test some Breakout submissions. I have a Breakout project in the works but I quit cuz it's terribad.
I see where you're coming from, but we don't have influence over 343; we only have influence over ourselves as Forgers. If we want Breakout to be better - something the truly attracts and retains new players, then it's up to us to explore what those concepts could look like and build them so that the community can see the potential here. The suggestion you had about the BR and power weapons - none of that comes down to gametype or playlist settings. That is all contained within a map, something you could build today. Same goes for the aesthetics. true, most of our blockouts are using the default aesthetic, but even now you're seeing stylistic and color variation, and only Knell has really seen an art pass. Breakout aesthetic isn't mandatory, but it's there if people want to use it. (Also, I was just about to link you to Qarth - a map I saw in the submission thread that has a stone-castle aesthetic and no power weapons... then I realized you made it lol =P) My point is, the concerns you're citing above is that players tire out on Breakout because they are aesthetically similar, because the gameplay settings don't scratch that itch, because the playlist isn't popular. But we don't address these concerns by not Forging maps. We address them by going out and showing what's possible. That's why the population and interest spiked when the first Community Breakout playlist happened, and that's why I think gathering maps from around the community has the ability to breathe new life into the playlist. It's why we need skeptical forgers like yourself who will bring a fresh perspective and challenge the design constructs of the original dev maps. There's just so much potential here, Buddy Jumps! Sorry, I just get so excited at what we have the ability to do, and I want to communicate that somehow. I think you've raised a really good point about variety, though. With this initiative, I think we could better support variety by opening up testing lobbies to more than just 343 gametypes. My original thought was to filter out some of the more mini-game style maps, but after reading your post, I think letting people tweak the sandbox has a lot of value.
You know I'm gamed! I really enjoyed doing these last time and the test lobbies we have done in the past have been quite fun and people seem to get involved with the maps faster then other maps. (Become more competitive faster)
Perhaps people could throw you guys some quick sketches of breakout map layouts that they would have in their head's, but don't want to take the time to forge them? I know I personally have too many projects at the moment and forge to meticulously to complete them in a timely manner. I'd love to see my Ocean Boardwalk infection map idea completed. I wanted to do it myself, but I feel like they will be releasing Halo 6 by the time I'm ready to really invest effort into it. I also have about 6 sketch's for Breakout maps too... I really only play Breakout and things it's an under played match type with not enough people putting time into it to really try it enough to learn it's nuance's. I think the removal of the BR and more non-hitscan weapons would be an interesting swap for the gametype. The issue is with only pistol and AR is that everyone will have to just push hard on the maps all the time for battles to occur. The variation per game with slow or fast paced is fun cause it depends on the skill of the guy holding the BR / DMR and the team work / call outs.
I understand your excitement and I wish this initiative the best outcome it can get. Maybe I'll even forge another Breakout map.
@Drizzy_Dan - sounds like this is the perfect opportunity to get some feedback on that Breakout project... ^_^ Shall I put you down for a slot on the Thursday lobby? I'm not sure if CF specifically will be able to do that by the deadline, but maybe you could post them and some other Forgers could use them as starting points? I hope so! Let me know if I can help out ^_^ You can definitely choose your own concepts. If you're hoping for MM consideration, just keep in mind that 343 will be judging them. I have zero inside information on what their standards are, but I would imagine the farther you get from the classic Breakout theme, the higher the gameplay standards will need to be. That being said, I'm personally doing a non-Breakout aesthetic for my map Junglerock - just keeping the shapes simple and paint-bally, so you'll be in good company
Cancelling this week, as nobody seems to have signed up, and I'll be moving next week's lobby back to 8pm so as not to clash with @Ascend Hyperion's Thursday lobby from 6 to 8. @Buddy Jumps and @Drizzy_Dan, if you guys want to test maps, post your GT, File Name, and gametype that you'd like to try!
GT: LL Kool D My map is really bad. I'm a bad Forger and I'm embarrassed to touch that thing again. I'm mainly a player/playtester and not a creator lol. I can absolutely support this initiative though.
The community is not making Breakout maps because the community does not like Breakout. At this point 343 either needs to rework the gametype settings or allow non-traditional Breakout maps into the playlist. For matchmaking, it has to have the Breakout aesthetic, and that's part of the problem. It doesn't offer a whole lot of creative freedom. We might see more maps being submitted if they didn't have to look like that.
The aesthetic's are a clean simple and fast to understand nature of the maps. The color choice or subtle aesthetic's go a long way to make them each feel unique, but different. Crossfire vs Gambol are very different feeling and those were 343 maps. Everything currently looks UNSC, but you could build a Covenant, Sanghelios or Forerunner ish simulated UNSC feeling map. It would be like the UNSC wanted to emulate a take over of an interior space so they built a quick Breakout practice arena with similiar aesthetics. Pylons the breakout map was inspired by and tries to emulate Foundation or Ivory Tower I think they said, don't remember which one though.
Come on, man, did you even read my post? You don't need to repeat what I already said. ^^ Also, if all forgers submit different looking (and playing) maps, 343 will see the issue right away. But what am I saying, the whole point is better explained in my post, so I won't repeat it again. ^^
Only having a magnum and SMG on the map just removes the little incentive to move that players already have in breakout, and just makes the gametype even more basic. Also sounds pretty dull too. Ultimately its another one of Kevin Franklins failed ideas. Now thats he longer with them, Breakout will just fade even further into the background.
Not trying to be mean but 343 doesn't see issues like this and then address them this way. They have a very obvious track record of finding unpopular/hated opinions and then eliminating any other options so that you're forced to play their way or no way. And they absolutely don't take forgers as serious designers by any mean, anyone can see that. That all said, I still think we should try to diversify the playlist and open up their mind to the idea. It's just a small chance that they'll consider anything different, let alone publish it. On that note, make whatever you want and if it plays well, we will back it up. This is what this initiative is about, expanding the idea of breakout and giving better options regardless of what happens in the end.
Players automatically move to chokepoints to get a better chance of winning the match, it's as easy as that. Your argument only counts for poorly designed maps, and even then there's the flag. Furthermore lone campers get eliminated in Breakout, since they are not in control of said chokepoints and most likely will be overpowered. It's different, if the whole team slows down the match, however I think that counts as a strategy and makes it more complex. Speaking of basic games, the most basic games are often the most popular and successful ones, and sometimes even the most complicated ones at the same time because of the players' nature. ^^ You might be absolutely right with this. ^^
I love the idea of a new playlist of Breakout and I would love to be part of it . Breakout is one of my ( probably my favorite ) favorite game modes and since leaving Breakout Comunnity have tried to make a map of the best. I also want to put up the Forger 's of Latin America and Spanish-speaking , with this game mode , no doubt , for the Forger 's who have dedicated time and effort to create gorgeous Breakout maps, this being a challenge to keep afloat for not die . I know it might not mean much to me, but what little I've been in this community , I can say that if we can make the situation change for Breakout. PS: I translated this into Google translator Spanish Version: Adoro la idea de una una nueva lista de reproducción de Breakout y me encantaria formar parte de ella. Breakout es uno de mis modos de juego favoritos (Probablemente mi preferido) y desde que salio Comunnity Breakout he tratado de hacer un mapa de lo mejor. Quiero también poner en alto a los Forger's de Latinoamerica y de habla hispana, con este modo de juego que, sin duda, para los Forger's que han dedicado tiempo y esfuerzo en crear magnificos mapas de Breakout, esta siendo todo un reto mantener a flote para que no muera. Se que talvez no signifique mucho de mi parte, pero con lo poco que he llevado en esta comunidad, puedo decir que si podemos hacer que la situación cambie para Breakout.
I'm only going off my observation of the past. I'm glad that they allow us to contribute at all though because the process (especially with their strict limitations we have to abide by) is very long to convert a map into a 343 approved matchmaking map even though our quality bar is often much higher than their own.