Remake Isolation

Discussion in 'Reach Competitive Maps' started by CyborgAnthro, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. CyborgAnthro

    CyborgAnthro Forerunner

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    This is a remake of the Halo 3 map of the same name. Let me start off by saying that I know a lot of people didn’t like Isolation for various reasons, but I did. Even if you did not like it, use this as an opportunity to actually change things about it you didn’t like. If I get a unanimous “there’s not enough cover on the hill” or something similar, I might alter it for version two.

    I believe the layout is very faithful and accurate to the original, and replicates all the cool features of the map, including the four holes that allow you to drop down to the lower level. The hole in the sniper bunker allows you a glimpse of the rocket launcher, and the larger "wormhole" chute at the top of shotgun bunker even makes a sound (grav lifts) to let you know someone is coming down. Similarities aside, I think that the entire dynamic of the map can be very different in Reach, especially given the load outs. With the jetpack and sprint, for example, the ways and speed of traversing the map have changed. Armor lockup also gives a new counter to the ghost. Some of the weapons were not remade for Reach so I think the replacements I made make the map more interesting as well. Also of note, because I could not really create a curvy hill, the top mid area (among others) is roughly approximated and thus some of the lines of sight have slightly changed. Since some say the hill was too easy to dominate the map from, I think the more square shape of the hill actually makes it harder to dominate every angle unless you are in the center, where you are vulnerable from all sides.

    Here are the screenshots, which I hope look familiar and recognizable:
    [​IMG]

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    Rocket Spawn and Ghost beneath snipe spawn:
    [​IMG]

    Inside one of the bases:
    [​IMG]

    Here's the lift where mauler would have spawned :(
    [​IMG]

    Bottom of the wormhole:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Ghost view of rocket spawn, note the hole from sniper bunker (with the stupid brace that keeps moving itself due to interlocking, this will be fixed in v2):
    [​IMG]

    View of base from shotgun bunker side:
    [​IMG]

    Initial spawn from behind base ramp leading down into base:
    [​IMG]

    View of other base from snipe side:
    [​IMG]

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    View from sniper side:
    [​IMG]

    Bird's-eye view:
    [​IMG]

    A lot of people seemed to think that the ghost was overpowered in the original. Given the slight narrowing in dimensions, it is a little harder to navigate as smoothly and dominate with the ghost. Combine this with the presence of a few more power weapons (grenade launcher and concussion rifle in place of two of the brute shots), and the addition of more plasmas (since there are no more spike grenades), and the plasma pistol, and it is much harder to dominate with the ghost.

    The most noticeable differences between this and the original are the "trees" on the top of the map. They have been moved a bit and obviously don't look natural as in the original. I would have liked to make the map look more ornate (especially with more rock pieces), but unfortunately I exhausted the budget mostly with the sheer geometry of the map. And since the top part of the map has to render a lot of objects at once, I have tried to reduce the number of objects without sacrificing too much cover. I already know this map causes slight frame rate troubles with split-screen. If lag is an issue for large parties, I welcome suggestions about how to improve it, such as suggesting some objects to be removed or consolidated.

    Here are some other slight gameplay changes I made which I would like input on:
    Since there are no maulers I put needle rifles in their place. This makes ranged combat easier in the tunnels and this might be undesirable. I did want people who spawn down low to be able to come up top with a ranged weapon already in hand, but this may amount to too many dmr/needle rifles on the map. I don't want them to have too easy access. Another change is the replacement of spikers by human pistols (not a big deal to me but some like the spiker). Finally, I added a plasma pistol to the bottom of the wormhole where there originally was nothing.

    The weapons:
    10x DMR - 30 secs, 2 spare clips
    1x Concussion rifle - 90 secs, 1 spare clip
    1x Grenade Launcher - 90 secs, 4 spare clips
    1x Rocket Launcher – 180 secs, 1 spare clip
    1x Sniper Rifle – 180 secs, 1 spare clip
    1x Shotgun – 180 secs, 1 spare clip
    1x Needler – 30 secs, 2 spare clips
    2x Needle Rifle – 30, 2
    2x Plasma Repeater – 30, 2
    2x Human Pistol – 30, 2
    1x Plasma Pistol - 30
    2x Health pack
    7x Plasma grenade - 30 secs
    9x Frag grenade - 30 secs

    As I said if I hear a lot of comments about one particular thing that nobody liked about Isolation I may change it to make it more Reach- and player opinion-friendly, but I think the approximately original layout is still a lot of fun. I thought about some changes such as these: Should I add some extra structures other than rocks to top mid? Should I try to get rid of the “trees” since they look like they are clearly made of railings?

    I appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks for downloading!
     
    #1 CyborgAnthro, Nov 9, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  2. Decadence Night

    Decadence Night Ancient
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    Looks like a decent remake. I'll download and take a closer look. You may want to change the name though. Desolation was the name of a Halo 2 map. That may cause some confusion.
     
  3. CyborgAnthro

    CyborgAnthro Forerunner

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    Lol, I totally forgot about Desolation. Too bad, I really wanted to play up the "desolate" angle too, but I just re-posted it as Isolation, so you may want to re-download. Thanks for the tip!
     
  4. jameslieb1

    jameslieb1 Ancient
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    "Isloation sucks"? I don't know about you guys, but I thought Isolation was an ok map, and this looks like a great remake of it. Everything is right where it should be - you got the proportions spot-on. Sure, Forge World's pieces are a bit too "blocky" to create an exact Isolation remake, but this is probably as close as you'll get. DL'd.
     
    #4 jameslieb1, Nov 9, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2010
  5. timmypanic

    timmypanic Forerunner
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    good to finally see a remake of isolation.... Tough map to make with the small Budget on forge. I have been looking for a good natural location to attempt a remake of my own. R the y metal shapes to replicate the trees? Good effort. Some small things seem to be missing. But with the budget it is expected. (cover along walls) decent remake!
     
  6. Terrible Towlie

    Terrible Towlie Forerunner

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    It doesnt look like theres as much cover out on front of the bases as there was in the original .(brute shot location) good job though.
     
  7. CyborgAnthro

    CyborgAnthro Forerunner

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    I originally wanted to try to use the forge world landscape to make the top part of the map but I don't think there's a good way to do it without completely changing the underground portion. Those are indeed an attempt at barren trees, but even I don't think they are that aesthetically pleasing. Why I think it's better having them there than not, if people don't like them I may remove them and place more rocks or other cover.

    EIite Grunt and Terrible Towlie, I agree that there are not as many cover objects or contours as in the original, especially on the hill. Unfortunately I am out of objects but I am trying to figure out if there are less essential pieces elsewhere that I can remove so as to add more cover to top mid. Although, I actually like that it's a bit more open since it's a bit harder to monopolize from the top. If you guys see specific pieces that I've left out (i.e., rocks?) that you feel are essential to the functionality of the map don't hesitate to point them out. Thanks for the comments everyone.
     
    #7 CyborgAnthro, Nov 9, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2010
  8. timmypanic

    timmypanic Forerunner
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    It plays well! The trees.. well ye they don't look pleasing to the eye but it keeps the game play similar to the original halo 3 v ! You have captured lots of the original isolation map, scale seems good too. Good remake! Fair play
     
  9. CyborgAnthro

    CyborgAnthro Forerunner

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    Thanks for the feedback. The scale was one of the things I really concentrated on.

    The curved cover at the of the bases has been approximated into flatter pieces but I think the amount of cover provided is the same.

    Also note that I added more pics and info.
     
  10. Antares777x

    Antares777x Forerunner
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    I do not agree with swapping Brute Shots for Concussion Rifles and Grenade Launchers, as they are much more powerful than the Brute Shot. Maybe give them a longer spawn timer and decrease clip size or something.
     
  11. General LiWar

    General LiWar Forerunner

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    I don't know about that, the brute shot could kill you in 3 hits (I always went 2 and a melee), which is about the same for the concussion rifle. The grenade launcher on the other hand, is a bit stronger seeing as it can kill you in 1 maybe 2 good hits.

    On a side note, I'm not sure that the grav lifts and shield door are necessary for the drop. You might need to make it steeper, but as long as it's steep enough to not climb back up, you'll slide right down it.
     
  12. gamergimp

    gamergimp Ancient
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    I really like this remake. I had a forgethrough and a quick custom on my own and it definitely felt very much like Isolation.

    I agree with General above about the lifts and one-way door... I found that when dropping down the cannon would push me into the wall rather than force me down to the underground (although this might be due to being on MLG 1.1 player settings at the time). I would still end up below but the experience was jarring and I can see it disturbing gameflow in a competitive match.

    Still, this is a VERY tidy Isolation remake and one I'll keep in my saved maps for custom games.

    If there's one thing I think it's missing, I didn't see the ledges along the outer walls? This is a very small crit though.
     
  13. CyborgAnthro

    CyborgAnthro Forerunner

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    They might be a bit more powerful than brute shot but this was meant to give a little more power to the sides of the map. Also, there were four brute shots in the original and I've only replaced the two at the bases with these. The other two have been replaced by plasma repeaters, which I think might be trading down a bit. Either way I think you're right about changing the spawn time and clip size. Right now I have concussion at 90 secs, 1 spare clip and grenade launcher at 90 secs, 4 spare grenades but I could increase the time to 120 secs and/or reduce the spare clips. I had trouble deciding how many grenade shells to equate with one extra clip of the concussion rifle but I guess 4 is too many. Thanks for the comment.

    The grav lifts are actually only there to make a sound when passing through them just like the sound when the mouth of the wormhole opened to let you know people came down. The shield door is there first of all to mimic the hole that opens and second of all to prevent jetpackers from going up the hole which obviously wasn't doable in the original. I thought being able to go up with the jetpack would make camping near in the hole even easier than it was before.

    I hadn't tried the map on mlg settings. Maybe I will remove the lifts for v2. Either way I need to lower those braces so you can't get caught on those little grooves that the lifts push you into. The ledges on the outer walls were something I left out, for one because I guess I didn't think they were that important to recreate, but more importantly they would have been more costly in the budget department.

    Thanks everyone for the feedback!
     
    #13 CyborgAnthro, Nov 12, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2010
  14. HOBO ITCHY

    HOBO ITCHY Forerunner
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    I must say,this is a really nice remake...

    I never would've thought you could get the hill to feel right without the grass,but it is really intuitive and natural feeling. Smart thinking on the 'wormhole' as you called it.

    Glad I downloaded it,and I'll run it with my friends on Customs Night!
     
  15. CyborgAnthro

    CyborgAnthro Forerunner

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    Thanks! The only part about the hill I regret is that you can't walk up smoothly from the sniper bunker, you have to walk around a bit or jump, but at least this blocks the line of sight from the top of the hill. I am always up for some playing the map if anyone is interested, just shoot me a friend request (gt: CyborgAnthro). Thanks for everyone who downloaded and gave feedback. 621 dls out of 1000 views (yay!)
     
  16. kdavis73

    kdavis73 Forerunner
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    Nice remake it looks like it would be nice to play on just a little blocky but theres not much you can really do about that. Also I took a while to ride around in the ghost and you can really get around pretty nice on it. Isolation was one of my favorite halo 3 maps I don't know why people don't like it. I made a couple of remakes myself and know that it takes a lot of work nice job
     
  17. The Trivial Prodigy

    Senior Member

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    I never thought I would see this map remade. I didn't particularly like the original, but it played ok.

    P.S. Spikers are available in Forge....
     
  18. CyborgAnthro

    CyborgAnthro Forerunner

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    Oops, I actually meant that there are no more spike grenades, not spikers. I actually just chose to omit the brute spikers because I just didn't want them in there, but I guess if my v2 is going to be more accurate I will probably put them back in. Thanks for the comment.
     
  19. ANEVILSPAR7AN

    ANEVILSPAR7AN Forerunner
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    Dude, I'm glad you did this, Isolation was a good map, the only bad games I had were ones riddled with laggers and boosters, I loved this map with rockets, you got a download from me.
     
  20. CyborgAnthro

    CyborgAnthro Forerunner

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    Thanks, glad to see there are fans of isolation out there after all (surprisingly it got 2000 dls in the first week). Unfortunately now lag can be a problem with the forged map itself and not just people with crappy connections. I haven't found it to be a problem except with large parties. Has anyone experienced much lag? I'm thinking when several people are around top mid. Jet packers especially see a lot of the map's objects at once.
     

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