Hey guys i'm here to provide you all with a preview of an invasion map I have been perfecting for weeks now. The map is built around the island on forge world and has elites attacking a UNSC base. In the first phase elites storm the low walls of the base to take out anti-aircraft guns. In the second phase, elites are given access to vehicles and assault the more sensitive part of the base which holds two sattelite stations. In the third phase the core must be taken from its housing in a dock area which contains a submarine and aircraft carrier. Great attention has been placed on aesthetics and even more has been placed on gameplay. I take great pride in being able to bring a dynamic, asymmetric, and balanced invasion map to the halo community. After weeks of testing and help from members of "Halo wheelmen" I am almost ready to release this. Here is a response to some criticism already put forth: Spoiler Severe Disco: This only happens in forge mode. Right now we have used invasion weapon tags and gating to limit how much the game has to render at any one point. Basically in the first phase all of phase 3 is not there. Once phase 1 ends, the turrets disappear and after phase 2, the sattelites disappear as well as other aesthetic bits. This limits rendering strain Serious Frame Rate: Frame rate has been addressed in the same way as disco. As you can see in the preview there were no frame rate issues. I am continuing to test this map and have not encountered this problem. Excessive choke points: We have multiple routes across the map to counter choke points. From phase 1 going to 2 there is a potential choke point where the dirt path goes. This area is easily broken through by 2 elite fireteams spawning close by and the support of elite vehicles. There is also an alternate route the elites can use to flank around a rock formation as seen at 2:06 in the preview. From phase 2 going to phase 3 there are no choke point issues. 2 Elite fireteams spawn at the center of the island facing the dock area. One fireteam spawns on the flank of the dock area with access to a tunnel with much cover. All elite fireteams get access to a vehicle bay which they can use to attack the dock area either from phase 2 side or the beach area coming from the large cave. Lack of contiguous cover: Phase 1 has cover available to the elites in the form of rocks and we have increased this in the latest version. Once up in the defenses of the spartans there is a bit less cover but enough around the territories. This is comparable to all other invasion maps I have seen. Phase 2 has elites spawning in the phase 1 area and have alot of cover when they spawn. As they move to attack phase 2 territories there are some area with open lines of sight but that is the nature of invasion and I couldn't have continuous cover going all the way to territories. Vehicles also help elites break through and give them cover. Phase 3 has cover for all the fireteams initially and there has been a lot of attention put into balancing sightlines in this area. The cave passage the elites have in this phase also has, if anything, maybe too much cover. Lack of alternative paths: There are multiple paths around this map for each phase. Phase one probably has fewer but has enough cover to allow elites to pick and choose their route as well as provide cover to their team mates. Lack of areas protected from vehicles: Land vehicles are restricted on this map given the terrain and are often directed along certain paths. People on foot have many opportunities to duck out of the way and can use the vehicle paths to trap them. For example the ghosts never have enough "runway room" to go on splatter sprees and as a result are a bit nerfed. They still provide an advantage for elites who can move quickly and supress people out in the open. The wraith is a slow moving target that has to go through several choke points where it is often taken out if not escorted properly. Once in place the wraith has a difficult time dominating because it has many obstacles and terrain feature to shoot over. It is also always under threat of being boarded. As with the ghosts, the wraith is nerfed but still effective. As for flying vehicles they only appear in phase 3. Elites get a banshee while humans get a falcon which counter each other. If one survives then the other team can still take it out. Spartans for example can use the dmr or grenade launcher they spawn with. They also have a sniper and rockets to deal with 1 banshee. If the Falcon wins then the elites can use their needle rifles or the two plasma launchers they have on the map. Here is a preview video: Preview "Island Complex" [HD] - Oakley HiDef - YouTube For those of you interested in the construction of the map there is also a forge tutorial series where I go through all aspects of the map. "Invasion Forging Part 1" [HD] - Forge Tips & Tricks (THFE) - YouTube
I have been waiting for this to be released since tutorial 1 first came out! How much budget is left? I remember in part 5 you had like 900? Anyway the map still looks great and I look forward to playing.
Glad so see you were following the process. Its come a long way and at this point I have around $100 so its cutting it pretty close I guess.
This honestly looks really great, I can see you put alot of time and effort into making it unique to itself, looks like it plays pretty well also. I like how your submarine and ship actually look detailed themselves, and like there real counterparts thats a wonderful job and on the guns also . The island is possibly one of my favorite areas of forgeworld and so much can be done on or around it with a map, I had planned to create a invasion/big team battle map myself on the island when I actually can find the time. If you need testing help hit me up GT: SilentRaine, do you have a release date thought up yet?
I think it would be best to move the core objective a little closer to the core spawn since it seems that in your video, the core did only make it around halfway from where the objective was. BTW, amazing so far in both aesthetics and gameplay.
I don't normally like BTB or Invasion custom maps, just due to the fact either they are the basic Canyon map with two bases (which anybody can get with the many maps already in Matchmaking) or they are just designed poorly. This and your previous invasion map blow that standard away for me. You have somehow not only used a commonly used BTB/Invasion spot, but also made it unique, and look good. I was actually very impressed with the initial wall, and the dock at the final area. This is extremely well done, and beautifully crafted. I look forward to its release and hope I can one day get a game on it.
Island Complex was simply put, underwhelming. The concept looks great on paper but does not function as such. Until you fix at minimum the gamebreaking flaws this is not worth playing. The following must be fixed to make the map playable. Severe disco (object flashing). Severe framerate issues. The following should be fixed to make the map function well. Excessive choke points. (between phase areas) Lack of contiguous cover. (most problematic between phase areas) Lack of alternative paths. (mostly first phase) Lack of areas protected from vehicles. (most of the map)
I haven't played Island complex, but those were my exact thoughts on Bunker Complex after playing it. This map would certainly apear not to make use of the Island's terrain nearly as well as Hushed Apprentice. I'd like to play this sometime to get a better feel for it, but from the video, Pyro's criticism would appear to be very accurate.
Thanks for the feedback. I would just like to respond to your points. Severe Disco: This only happens in forge mode. Right now we have used invasion weapon tags and gating to limit how much the game has to render at any one point. Basically in the first phase all of phase 3 is not there. Once phase 1 ends, the turrets disappear and after phase 2, the sattelites disappear as well as other aesthetic bits. This limits rendering strain Serious Frame Rate: Frame rate has been addressed in the same way as disco. As you can see in the preview there were no frame rate issues. I am continuing to test this map and have not encountered this problem. Excessive choke points: We have multiple routes across the map to counter choke points. From phase 1 going to 2 there is a potential choke point where the dirt path goes. This area is easily broken through by 2 elite fireteams spawning close by and the support of elite vehicles. There is also an alternate route the elites can use to flank around a rock formation as seen at 2:06 in the preview. From phase 2 going to phase 3 there are no choke point issues. 2 Elite fireteams spawn at the center of the island facing the dock area. One fireteam spawns on the flank of the dock area with access to a tunnel with much cover. All elite fireteams get access to a vehicle bay which they can use to attack the dock area either from phase 2 side or the beach area coming from the large cave. Lack of contiguous cover: Phase 1 has cover available to the elites in the form of rocks and we have increased this in the latest version. Once up in the defenses of the spartans there is a bit less cover but enough around the territories. This is comparable to all other invasion maps I have seen. Phase 2 has elites spawning in the phase 1 area and have alot of cover when they spawn. As they move to attack phase 2 territories there are some area with open lines of sight but that is the nature of invasion and I couldn't have continuous cover going all the way to territories. Vehicles also help elites break through and give them cover. Phase 3 has cover for all the fireteams initially and there has been a lot of attention put into balancing sightlines in this area. The cave passage the elites have in this phase also has, if anything, maybe too much cover. Lack of alternative paths: There are multiple paths around this map for each phase. Phase one probably has fewer but has enough cover to allow elites to pick and choose their route as well as provide cover to their team mates. Lack of areas protected from vehicles: Land vehicles are restricted on this map given the terrain and are often directed along certain paths. People on foot have many opportunities to duck out of the way and can use the vehicle paths to trap them. For example the ghosts never have enough "runway room" to go on splatter sprees and as a result are a bit nerfed. They still provide an advantage for elites who can move quickly and supress people out in the open. The wraith is a slow moving target that has to go through several choke points where it is often taken out if not escorted properly. Once in place the wraith has a difficult time dominating because it has many obstacles and terrain feature to shoot over. It is also always under threat of being boarded. As with the ghosts, the wraith is nerfed but still effective. As for flying vehicles they only appear in phase 3. Elites get a banshee while humans get a falcon which counter each other. If one survives then the other team can still take it out. Spartans for example can use the dmr or grenade launcher they spawn with. They also have a sniper and rockets to deal with 1 banshee. If the Falcon wins then the elites can use their needle rifles or the two plasma launchers they have on the map.
Needless to say, I haven't played this yet, but from where I sit it looks....I'm sorry to say...merely competent. Great [reused >.<] aesthetics, but as a map it just looks to have been done before. Which isn't to say it's bad, but...maybe I've just been jaded.
I have not yet looked through in forge. All that was from playing two marginal games on it one a while ago and one more recently. The problems with the flow of the map could partially be from terrible teammates and enemies who never tried anything besides throwing themselves aimlessly forward. When I looked for alternative paths all seemed to offer only significant disadvantages. The framerate and disco problems may have been fixed but were still a problem both times I played the map. Even if you eliminated them, it was so bad they will likely reoccur in high stress situations. Something else I forgot to mention, the phases need to be compartmentalized. That is a simple matter of reorganizing spawns so there are clear red and blue sides for each phase with vehicles and power weapons in backfield spawns, and only in backfield spawns. Most of the game there were no even remotely defined sides which made teamwork all but impossible. Had there been a coordinated team, the setup of weapons and spawns would allow them to easily dominate the map. I'm not trying to trash your map or tarnish your reputation (although that would be nearly impossible after the fawning I heard in the pregame lobby). There is no need to defend against these arguments. They are simply put forth so you can fix problems with the map. If you want help or clarification on any points I will gladly join you in a forge session, NAT permitting, to help you with rising any o these problems.
Sorry you feel this way. I though my forging style was pretty unique and from the invasion maps ive seen it stands out but thats probably personal bias. Ive played this many times and have a great time with no problems of spawn killing or balance that plague other maps. Again this could be bias but for a fact I know that I havent had issues with spawn camping. Hopefully you guys will still give it a try when it comes out [br][/br]Edited by merge: yeah thanks for the input again. I don't really feel the way that you do but this is probably biased. For example when you say that the sides arent defined I would point out that the spartans basically spawn in a line formation at the back of each phase and must defend locations between them and the elite spawn. In the first phase spartans spawn behind a low wall in two bunkers so I would think that was pretty defined. On the second phase I guess its more of a rolling fight over the complex which may make it seem like there is no predefined side. For the third phase spartans spawn around the core and elites spawn at the center of the island which does make for pretty defined sides. I actually thought each phase was pretty compartmentalized so if you don't mind I would appreciate a little more explanation. Maybe I could show you in forge sometime. As for teamwork I guess it depends on who you have in your game but team work definetly helps. Each fireteam has a role and co ordination is needed. Probably playing on the map for the first time or with people who havent played the map before though probably nullifies all of my arguments. A first play through is always hectic and since I test this map constantly with people who are used to it that probably leads to different experiences for both of us. As for lag I don't really have issues but I can understand how there would be some in "high stess" situations you talked about. Hopefully the latest version remedies these issues. I would really like to thank you for your comments as all criticism helps. I hope I don't come off sounding arrogant or anything when im defending my map and would like to apologize if I do. You have been very helpful and I appreciate your professionalism. I am also sorry for the "fawning" that you experienced in your lobby. It probably comes from the people who have seen our youtube channel. I would rather they didnt do that as much and just judge the map from gameplay as you have done. It doesnt really help me tweak the map when it is coddled so once again I appreciate your input. If you want you can send me a friend request. GT: Oakley HiDef