No, I'm not. I'll point you to a community that has huge amounts of cheap strategies. RTS games. There are many things that are considered cheap in those communities. Spamming overpowered units being the most prevalent. Why? To win. This part is what you don't get about ranked. It's about winning. A lot of people enjoy winning. To win in Halo, you need 4 basic skills. 1, Aim skill. 2, map awareness. 3, Tactics. 4, Intelligence. From the sounds of it, you have two of those. Aim skill and tactics. What you don't have is the want to win and map awareness. If you had those two, hiders would be screwed as if you are aware, they can't hide. It was a joke. -_- Then play social. Very simlple. I rarely see hiders there. I'll use what you said to another person. LEARN TO READ. Competition is what a lot of people enjoy. It's not the only one though. The quit button is very easy to get to... And it is to those who play in the right sections. Ranked for competitive. MLG for uberhax0rs. Social for those not concerened abou rank. Not that you're insulting me outright, I don't know if I can continue this debate seriously. Already adreesed.
What exactly are you supposed to do when someone is hiding? Wander around and check every hiding spot that I know about. I don't get on youtube and look at all the latest 1337 hiding spots. Even when I do wander where they are hiding they have the upper hand with surprise. It's bullshit. If someone is hiding all I can do is hope they don't come up behind me and hope they aren't out of the map or in some insane hiding spot. Of course it doesn't, but it should because the game is more enjoyable for both parties when they are actually playing the "correct" way. Halo 2 had it's ups and downs. It was a sort of unspoken rule. Nobody uses the "noob" weapons. Now that doesn't exist in Halo 3 because it's more balanced, but in Halo 2 there were weapons that were downright unfair. Completely different game. How the **** am I supposed to know where they're hiding? That kind of defeats the purpose of hiding. All I can do is look for them and hope they both don't magically pop up behind me. I don't spend my time looking for these shitty hiding spots in my spare time. Are you trying to say I don't have intelligence because I don't know every ****ing hiding spot on every ****ing map? OH SH- I want to play people my skill level. You shouldn't have to entirely sacrifice fun for competition. A lot of competitive people I see are constantly pissed off at the game. Constantly. I don't go in to MM to quit. I should never have to quit. There should never be a reason to quit. That's the problem. I play ranked to get a higher rank and have fun at the same time. Ranked is more fun for me because I get to play people my skill level more often, but I also have to deal with people who play in ****ing annoying manners. The insults are just for fun.
I keep seeing the word "Competitive." I'm afraid there's nothing competitive about hiding. It doesn't require skill. Telrad, I'd even offer a small congratulations for defending your beliefs, if you defended them well. However, you're using what seasoned debaters call, "circular reasoning." In addition, you're assuming things. Several have assumed that Sharp lost a game due to hiding and was merely venting here. Assumptions make your side of the argument entirely faulty. Furthermore, I will go as far to say that you're thoughts on the subject are invalid due to your experience. Since it appears that you so valiantly support hiding, I will guess that you practice this. If this is not the case, then you're just an ass. However, I'd like to think you're at least an ass for a reason. Whilst taking part in what this thread covers, you're not actually playing the game. You're merely talking/laughing with your friends, and wasting batteries. What Sharp and I seek is to play the game. Playing requires you moving the little sticks and pressing buttons, by the way. In summary::: Based upon your support of hiding, it appears as if you fall into the category of those who don't actually play the game as per the above definition. Having not played the game, you're in no position to make claims regarding what is fair or unfair in the game itself. Debate- over.
Principle, not the point. If you people hide on you so often, you'd think that you'd finally know where they all are. also, map awareness means you know the whereabouts of your enemies through sight. Also, intelligence doesn't mean book smart. It means that you know where they all are. Simple. An easy way to do this is to use logic and thouraly search a room. I believe it's OH SHI- and by the, I haven't devided by zero yet. Here's an interesting tidbit about trueskill. It affects Player matches as well. Yes, that means Social has an invisible rank. The more you play, the better the games. Also, the reason that those people are pissed is because A, they are all FPS Doug wannabes and B, Halo 3 has that quality to it. It pisses everybody off. Get your granny to play it and she will ****ing blow her head off at the amount of things that piss you off. Quite... That depends entirely on what your definition of 'Skill' is. There is a skill in hiding. You just don't realise it just like there is a skill to pushing buttons and moving thumbsticks. I fall into circular reasoning because whatshisname doesn't seem to adress those points. Also, if you read over my osts, I don't recall ever saying that the people against hiding got owned by HLGs. Interesting tidbit, I didn't even know that there was such a thing as HLGers. Wait, let me look at something first. Can anybody tell me what the definition of 'assumption' is? I think that my meaning of the word 'assumption' is different to this guys! On your point, you tore it right down. You tore it down before it was even born. I believe you just aborted your point. Says who? Games can be played in many different ways. Soccer can be played by moving a lot. Or by just standing still and stopping the ball from going somewhere. I had to make sure this post was made by the same person. Can a mod check for an IP adress or something because I'm pretty sure that this post was made by at least two people. Also, I played the game. Those people have played the game. They moved into those hiding spots. They killed you at least once. They surrendered the map and it's weapons to you. They playe dthe game.
1: Correct, that was an assumption. For that reason, I included a statement should the assumption be false. Moreover, my assumption was based upon fact. That fact: common sense tells me that, if one defends something, it is likely that he practices it and/or supports it. 2: Soccer =/= Halo. 3: You used the word, "played." "I played the game." Well, proper grammatical structure suggests that you would never say something to the tune of, "I played the game. Then, I played the game." It makes no sense, see? We have common ground now. We both understand that the preceding, quoted sentences are entirely nonsensical. So, after having "played" the game, what did you do? Obviously, you didn't continue to play the game, or you wouldn't have used the past tense. AH, revelation. You stopped playing, didn't you? My general thoughts? ***You'll not admit cowardice. Both Sharp and I will be the first to congratulate an opposing team on a well-earned victory. This shows your lack of humility. ***You've dodged several issues, most of which were addressed by Sharp. This further contributes to your cowardice. ***You've no concern for another's gaming experience. You've not said this, but don't do your gay triple-quoted assumption crap again because there's no denying that this practice disregards the opposition's best interest. This shows your lack of character. All three of those are entirely irrelevant to both Halo and the more specific topic at hand. However, they are relevant- neigh, essential -to debating. The foremost method of victory in true debating is keeping your validity. This requires respect, which is something you've also shown a lack of. For your insufficiency in both skill (Yeah, it's not difficult to run and jump. I've tested most hiding spots in Customs by myself. It's much less difficult than maneuvering the map and earning your kills.) and showmanship, I am calling this my last detailed post. I come to this section of ForgeHub seeking a fruitful debate. What I've found is lack of gentlemanly attitude and general common sense. With regard to this, I'll henceforth post with likened amount of gentlemanly attitude and common sense.
Principles don't carry over game to game like that. It actually doesn't happen that often, it's just annoying when it does. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO SEE THEM AND KNOW WHERE THEY ARE WHEN THEY ARE HIDING?! I'm talking about the hiding where people get in crazy spots. Underneath on Narrows, in the attic spawn on The Pit, etc. There is simply nothing to do about that. It's not just "Oh, I can look through every room and find them". No, people hide in places that this just won't work. ...O...k? I get paired up against people way beneath me in social. Here's a little tidbit. Trueskill is a piece of ****. I know Halo 3 pisses me off, but that doesn't mean some things should just be ignored. Saying "Oh, this game has such and such flaws, so it doesn't matter if I add such and such more flaws" isn't right. Hiding takes little to no skill. It's having someone (usually youtube) show you a hiding spot that is out of the intended boundries of the game and abusing it. You're doing the same, it's a stalemate. Another member implied that. You've made a few assumptions here. You must be trolling. No one can be this stupid as to compare Soccer and Halo like this. Also, the soccer players that don't move are camping, not hiding. Are you implying Drum and I are the same person? You're an idiot. They played it in a cheap manner that kills the fun for the other team and themselves, even if they won't admit it. No one has fun playing Halo by getting in a hiding spot and sitting the whole match. They might be having fun laughing at the other team and watching their rank go up, but not by playing the game. Being a gentleman means something else where I come from. Hehehe.... Don't expect to get that joke FH. I am anything but a gentleman. lolololollolololo
Sorry but soccer =/= Halo, try and use metaphors that actually partially relate. Plus in soccer, you can't just stand still and stop the ball from going somewhere. If your standing still there is no way to stop the ball because no one that bad that they'd kick it towards a person on the other team that is staying still, they'd pass it around him or just dribble around him. Your metaphor may work however if the soccer players are 3-5 years old.
Wait, once again, I have to wonder, is logic only allowed for you guys? Because, using your logic, you guys got owned badly by people who were hiding and you came here pissed off. Go back to school and learn about metaphors. I use them a lot if you haven't noticed. Bravo, Stop your assumption crap because you assume too much and as the saying goes,"When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me." I always say gg at the end of a game. Can't say the same for the genaral Halo community. Tell me what I've dodged? I don't see anything that hasn't been adressed directly or indirectly. Here is where your whole entire argument falls to pieces in seconds. In Halo 3, you can play Forge, Custom Games and Matchmaking. Matchmaking is compromised of Social, DLC, Hardcore and Ranked. DLC and Social are more layed back then Hardcore and Ranked. Hardcore and Ranked have ranks. To win ranks you have to win games. The games have rules. These rules don'st ay anything about hiding or camping. Therefore, using logic, if your enemy is hiding, tough luck, you better find him. End of. Don't come bitching to anyone considering there is WHOLE ****ING COMMUNITIES that are dedicated to jumping and hiding. Are you saying that their skill in those is miniscul and useless in a match? I say BULLSHIT! While you practiced your aim and tactics, they practiced how to travel the whole lenght of the map in seconds. That takes huge skill and quite honestly, more skill then your BR skillz. If they found a spot where nobody would find them, they deserve to use it. It takes skill to get in that spot, it takes skill to get the one kill at the most important part of the Halo game, it takes skill to not be seen by the enemy for 12 minutes, it takes skill to survive against the enemy if they have the power weapons. If you can't find them, use theater. Couple of seconds needed. Translation. I lost the debate, I will surrender. Where have I lost it? Really now, let's take a look at one of the -reps you gave me. Try and perform each and every single one of those jumps 100% of the time wether you are getting shot or dodging a grenade. Please, you barely even know what you're talking about. The Whambulance is over there. ----> I've given several reasons as to why hiding is allowed. You all dismiss them as cheap in a game that YOU assume to have rules that were agreed to by everyone. There was very little common sense in your post. Yes, they do. Then why are you bitching about it so much? Quiting from a game isn't that hard... First of all, see above. Second, Narrows one has been blocked. Third, the Pit one is easy to grenade spam. KO? Let me guess, you barely play it because of that? Now, the point I made was that, the more you play it, the enemies will be of equal skill. The point made here was that Halo pisses EVERYONE off. Google the Sequesters hiding adventure. Those hiding spots are incredibly hard that I can only do two of them with 100% accuracy. Then why apply it to me? For different reasons. He assumed that I hid all the time because I was defending it. I assumed he was an idiot. You must be trolling. No one can be this stupid as to compare Soccer and Halo like this. Telrad loves to use metaphors. Typo. You proved yourself wrong. The hider is having fun by hiding because he is amused by th enemies antics. That, I believe is the definition of Lulz which is another form of fun. I was referring to the Goalie. His style of play is as much valid as the others. Aslo, looking back, a better comparison would be if the team focused more on defense.
I can not take you seriously after that. Your logic is awful. Your soccer metaphor was so awful it hurt you more than it helped you and you're sticking to it. Goalies do not hide. Even if they did, soccer is an entirely different game. I understand it was a metaphor, it was just a very bad one. You honestly think hiding takes skill. You keep coming back to the "You don't like it, quit" argument, which is what I'm arguing. I shouldn't HAVE to quit. You were defending your honest opinion at first, but now you're just arguing to win. Final word here. The part of our argument that you never addressed was that you are ruining the online experience. Competition should not sacrifice fun. It's a video game. Fun is paramount. You keep ignoring that. Congratulations, you're a ****.
Your logic::: ---Hiding is cheap. It's not difficult to sit around a corner, wait for the first kill to walk by, and then move to a spot where you camp the rest of the game out. ---No, it isn't. Yes, it is. I win. Anyone else see the flaw?
Addressing no one in particular an everyone in particular - I hate hiding. Seriously, its not fun for me, and its not fun when I have to go find people who are hiding. Lets stop for a second and look at these "honor rules" from Halo2. People would avoid using the Sword or PP because of their unbalanced ability to completely choke a map. It's true, these weapons would do this, and people would not use them because of it. That said - it was the most stupid bloody retarded tactic ever used. If there is a weapon that almost guarantees you will win, you get that weapon and fight to keep it. Its basic tactics. You use tactics that help you win to win. Why the hell do you think America and Russia had a nuclear arms race during the cold war? Because nukes were the most destructive weapon they had, and it would be good tactics to have them at their disposal. Same with the Dreadnoughts in WWI. So, if hiding lets people win, then makes sence to hide, as its just good tactics. Same with whoring out the power weapons every now and then. I hate hiding, but it works. That makes it a good tactic. Anyone who refuses to use proven tactics (IN A VIDEO GAME - KEEP IN MIND) because they feel its unfair is stupid. They lack awareness of the game around them, lack the skill to use superior tactics, and through all of thee different ways, they lack intelegence.
this is likely to never end... those ant-HLG arguments i admit are getting old. but nomatter what you people say, its not going to effect who do it, complain all you want, its not going to help, anyway, heres an over look of 2 "cheap" tactics Camping so, somone has a shotgun and is waiting in a corridor for you, think about it. Do i really need to go down there? usually no, there usually will be another route, so just avoid him hes too strong down there... hes using the shotgun where it is most effective, would you take a shotgunout into the open? or stay in CQB areas? so you could call sniping from and high point is camping, as your simply using it in the weapons element. Hiding i dont get the problem, people can easily keep this from happening simply by not letting the kill happen if you kill them instead, guess how many points they need now, 2, kill them again and they may never have a chance to hide, anyway, "great" spots are usually EXTREEMLY HARD TO REACH. and also, very few H3 players hide, so get over it
That right there is the closest thing to a definitive conclusion this debate is ever going to reach. =P
You're not getting it either. I'm not denying that it works to win. It just kills the fun. Do you even understand what we're arguing about?
First of all, I know the comparison was bad. That's why I made another better one. Second, do you know how these comparisons work? I don't say that they hide, I say there ARE MANY DIFFERENT STYLES OF DOING SOMETHING. GETTING RID OF ONE IS RETARDED. Heres the thing. You say that you play for fun. But you also say that you shouldn't have to quit. Quiting gets rid of rank which shouldn't affect how much fun you have. But you don't want to quit. Why???? If the game sucks, you can quit any time. VERY EASY. I did address that. I said that many people find competition fun. Funny how you seemed to have forgotten that... It does not kill the fun. YOU ARE KILLING THE FUN FOR YOURSELF. You whole argument is flawed because YOU CAN QUIT ANY TIME. <--- If you care about rank so much, then learn where these places are.
What about when to hide requires the use of a brute shot say, then, while you are hiding you keep that brute shot. making it impossible for anyone to follow you. it's like playing on a custom infection game where everyone is at the top of the map with zombie settings on - no shields, no health, damage resistance on nothing, with high gravity and low speed - and you end up being the zombie. no fun.... its just a way to guarantee your win. I'm saying.. its a cheap win. if anyone at anytime (like narrows spot) can get to it, sure it's fine. but like in guardian, where you need the brute shot and there is only one on the map, it makes it sure no one can get to you, forcing a loss on the other team. I once had a guy to that to me after one lucky kill. then ran and hid, and after sent me a message about how much i sucked. seriously, what the hell >_>. THATS not fair. rest is fine. like behind the ammo crate? I lol'd for about 15 minutes because I've used that tactic myself on team ball several times. and other occasions. Or hiding behind a barrier and people somehow missing you. or in the right cracks with the wrong angles. or the pit room.
well if your using different tactic it like saying a sniper is cheating ageist a shotgun but they got different advantages and disadvantages
I agree that hiding as a tactic is fair, but when it is not hiding, but merely getting someplace that no one else ever possibly can for the rest of the game, thats unfair.
First of all, they have 5 seconds to get up there after a kill. 5! Once they are up there, they have a 3 seconds time limit where they can be one shotted. The Brute Shot respawns and those places are all out in the open (Hiding spots) You can rocket them, Brute shot them to hell. No argument here. It respawns. See above. It is completly fair as they took a huge risk and it payed off.
The only map that hiding drives me crazy in is Epitaph, but thats more of a map design problem than anything else. The map is far too linear for my tastes...and promotes camping. Hopefully the removal of shield doors will alleviate some of this, but I doubt it.