HCS: Season 2 Discussion

Oh yeah, and good look to Erupt. I should be happy about that one as I know it's quality, it's just not really memorable to me.... Maybe because Tyrant's shown me so many of his maps though and they all just blend together to me now.

Anyhow, congrats to you and Salty.

 

It's "purdy" even though it's lighting is borked. Pretty much, double standards on selection criterion. Crock of bullshit. The awash maps should have been tested. They could have easily been reforged on Skyward. It's not like putting down a bunch of blocks exactly the same way is difficult... It just wasn't worth the time investment to do unless you knew the map would proceed in the process. Total bullshit.

 

@schnitz that sounds about right with my maps. Last checked I am about at the century mark for maps forged now. My big thing with these processes has always been the lack of transparency involved and the fact that I try to let a map promote itself rather than pushing down peoples throat that is why I usually avoid **** like this or put minimal effort into it.

Also, I have really appreciated all the feedback that Salty and myself have not received since releasing it. Maybe if I shoved it down your salted throats someone would have told me it was bad. Also, no hill on Erupt makes no since.

 

Glad you're not salty with me here since I wasn't giving the most warming of responses... To be blunt, Erupt and Athelon are the only two deserving maps that made this cut. Maybe Epicborough as well, but I've beat that horse to death by now.

The lack of transparency of the process is a major issue. People shamelessly promoting their maps and politicking to get in the back door is even worse. Also saddening to see that being part of a clique appears to play a role still too. The bulk of the maps that got in for one or the other reasons, and that just isn't right. A map should never get pushed forward because of the name of the forger, nor should one be rejected for similar reasoning. It's disheartening to no end to see talent and hard work rarely pays off in this community.

Here's my thoughts on it, the following maps should never have made the cut. I'll start with the one I disagree with most.

Venom - An untried, poorly scaled, and cluster**** asymm that only got in because Fated is the master of back door lobbying. Freaking joke that this was even given as much as a second thought for consideration.

Eden - Beautiful map, yes, but also very untried and unpolished. Built in a hurry specifically for HCS submission, but lacking adequate work to bring it to the level it should be. Inconsistencies in sight lines bysecting the map are the biggest concern. It's cluttered in some areas, but sparse of any logical "cover" in others.

Also to note, neither of this maps play Hill particularly well. They'll play the same hashed in style that the current S1 Hill maps do. Nothing that sets them apart at all. If anything, Athelon or Erupt should be the hill maps.

Temple - Really? Nebula? With all the lighting problems? I'm not bothered that it's a 2B2T, I'm bothered that a map with shitastic lighting got in when lighting was cause to DQ far more deserving choices.

Tesla - Ugly as sin and a 2B2T, but frankly I'm not too bothered by that either. Hell, I'm not even that bothered by it getting in on merit of who Diesel is. If any map should get in because of name or politicking, it should be this one because it at least has a real community support base. Hell, I'd rather see it go further forward than the three maps I listed above.

Epicborough - Dead horse, do I need to bother stating my problems again? At least it's a polished map though, so I'm not too salty about it.

So whatever happened to Dispute? Where the **** is Orion? Both of these maps had far more testing and work done on them than the majority of these submissions. Both of them have larger fanbases than all these maps (sans Tesla) combined. It's a damned joke that these got snubbed. Even worse for Blaze who actually went out of his way to reforge his map because of the lighting complaints. Hell, same goes for Haunted with his map Complexion, which definitely deserves far more credit than half these maps.

The sad truth of it here is, name and affiliation matters far too much. Unpopular (within the "in" forge community) forgers such as myself, Blaze and Haunted will always get stiffed in favor for individuals that spend more time lobbying and politicking their maps in through the back door like Fated.

This is a total joke. I'd rather have KillaKC a thousand times over than any process we've had since.

As I've said before, I'm done with forging and Halo in general. I continued to lurk over the past 2 weeks because I had interest in what maps where being chosen for HCS. Sadly, with these results, there's no reason for me to even participate in this "community" anymore. I've asked that War delete my account at the end of the week. I will also be blocking all Halo forums from my computers soon, but I'll stick around a day or two to continue any further discussion brought up by this post.

 

I didn't think Erupt was bad but don't feel bad, I didn't get much feedback either. There was a mix up on initial spawns AFTER I reforged it on a separate canvas to fix the lighting and after that test session it was pretty much dropped off the face of the earth as far as the HCS tests go. I want to be positive though so if you think about it, theres always season 3 & Halo 5 coming out this year. That gives me plenty of time to master this map from Halo 4 to H2A to Halo 5, lol.

 

I just think most forgers would appreciate at least an explanation why one map was chosen over another. I feel this would satisfy most if not everyone.

@Zombie it isn't a big deal. I figured the map would get pushed through but I was at least hoping some salted nerd would post, "uR MaP bAd" on its thread or something. Just so I can laugh.

 

I feel your pain. I have no clue why Temple and Tesla are being considered at all. Temple just looks like a mess to me (at first glance) and Tesla was a direct order from the pros, therego, a shitty product.

 

I had the feeling that Dispute played very well for CTF and it was a fresh design.

Also the KoTH maps that we have don't really play different from the other gametypes on them.
I would like to see maps that need a real setup for KoTH not just running around like slayer and having a person in hill that was near it and just hopped in for some seconds.

 

The reason is that there aren't any real setups during koth gametypes is that the hills only last for 60 seconds as to 120 seconds like it did in previous games.

 

It is also the maps.

 

I feel like I may have over reacted, and looked somewhat childish & I apologize. Honestly, most of these maps do look better than mine so I can see that but at least Dispute should be up there.

The list isn't really bad to me I guess. Athelon, though a little big imo, is my favorite shown above. It does play well and of the list it is the best in making it feel like you aren't on a forge map. It really submerses you in the atmosphere.

Eden is good. Its a great asym. and the layout is great. What sucks is how the blocks have to look ugly to make the layout the way it is which is purely cosmetic. That doesn't affect gameplay which is what should be considered anyway.

Epicborough is cool. I only played Assault on it & it played it decent but as you can see its not even in the category for it but its a decent layout and its very cleanly forged.

Erupt, I feel the same as I do about Epicborough. No negative responses from me.

Temple. It looks cool and clean but man, another friggin Midship. We have been looking at Midship forever. This one is a bit large but even so, Oracle was even better than this. Naded played both the other night & pointed out the scaling & he even thought Oracle played better. He loved Oracle actually and I am tired of the Midship recipe but would prefer Oracle.

Tesla, I have already voiced my opinion. I don't think either of the 2 Midship clones should be here but I am not a pro player.

Venom, I like Venom as a customs map. I don't feel its competitive material. It may have changed though since I last played it. When I did it was a bit hectic with ALL 3 power ups, Rockets, Sniper, Shotgun & a Sentinel Beam. It was like playing Fiesta! Nah, not that bad but that seemed a little much to me & my experience. I do like the map though, don't take it wrong.

So the list isn't too far off. Its missing a couple maps that should be in to replace the Midship clones but we all knew there had to be one in the end. I'll just take this time to go back to my map & do what I can to get it into shape for the next round if there is one. Surely by then it will be up to par, its been in the works since Halo 4, lol.

 

Mostly the gametype though, the moment you have a setup for a hill you will get a max of 30-45 seconds or so. Then you will need to setup for the next hill. That way 'set ups' don't last long. You can set up on any map if you got the time to do so.

 

I don't really blame any of you for being upset.
I'm a big fan of Orion, and if it was disqualified solely because it's on Awash, that's pretty dumb.
Dispute deserved pro player testing, and seeing it left off this list was probably the biggest surprise to me (even more so than seeing Tesla on it).

All of the other maps that went through the initial testing phase were good, and I'm sad to see some of the more original ones are not continuing on in the process.

The maps remaining on the list are all pretty good, but I'm in favor of really pushing the envelope with map choices, and the current list is too safe for my liking.

 

Don't get me wrong I don't think that Eden is a bad map by any means but I feel like even 120 second hills would not play different on it. Just saying that maps like Orion do have a much bigger focus on getting the setup for each hill and play really different for hill and slayer.

 

I'm not even sure if the 60s Hill is a good arguement for Eden vs Orion given its overall size and layout. More likely than not, most of that 60s will be spend traversing from respawn point to the hill area, and not so much time spent around positioning and counter-positioning. At least with Orion, while 60s Hills don't favor it much (120 is far superior), can still get back in the action and fight for positioning fairly well. People say Orion is too big for 60s Hill gametypes, but frankly, the way the map is laid out makes it play much smaller.

Still, lost cause. It's a damned shame. Three-Fail-Three really screwed the pooch yet again.

 

I get where you are coming from I mean it is just a punch in the face that we have 2 midship/onslaught clones (one is not even forged on Skyward) and maps like Dispute, Orion, Ridge, Onyx and so on just got ignored...

 

I'm not talking about Eden though, I was speaking in general. 60 sec hill times don't make sense for the gametype.

 

Yeah sure I like 120 seconds more regardless of the map.

 

I feel i must step in to clarify a single point. ALL of the maps we showed to 343i went to their internal testing dungeon on completely equal footing. No maps were pushed above others by us, and most of their testers have no idea of who is who in the forge world. No map was disqualified or overlooked because of who built it, nor the due to the map's history.

I have no explanation for Tesla's inclusion. We didn't show it, but we were not their only source for content.