Grotto

Discussion in 'Featured Maps' started by RightSideTheory, Sep 10, 2012.

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What do you think of this map?

  1. Not My Style

    3 vote(s)
    13.0%
  2. Okay

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Average

    5 vote(s)
    21.7%
  4. Good

    8 vote(s)
    34.8%
  5. Great

    7 vote(s)
    30.4%
  1. ThrowinDemBows

    ThrowinDemBows Takoyaki?
    Senior Member

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    I said the same thing when the change was made but what do I know. The GL platform was lowered as a quick fix for avoidance issues.


    I'm assuming you're talking about the platform that leads to GL (the drop downs), if so, then it wouldn't be an issue with the GL platform raised.
     
    #21 ThrowinDemBows, Sep 13, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2012
  2. xzamplez

    xzamplez Ancient
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    What DO you know?

    I'm talking about the two platforms that are in each spawn atrium. Both connections to the platform can be seen looking toward the center of the map. AKA the highest point of the map is spread evenly through each atrium which means that the desirable area will be the one that's the easiest to defend.
     
    #22 xzamplez, Sep 14, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  3. ThrowinDemBows

    ThrowinDemBows Takoyaki?
    Senior Member

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    Just so you know, I was agreeing with you.

    So the platform you are referring to is the one that leads to GL? (the one that isn't the needler spawn.). If so, when we lowered the GL platform we took away the extra route into the areas. The drop downs created one way routes in that area to prevent people from circling around the area and avoiding the player. Pretty much both of your problems stem from a quick fix that was made to improve gameplay, but it created more problems in doing so.
     
    #23 ThrowinDemBows, Sep 14, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  4. Jex Yoyo

    Jex Yoyo POETRY, bitch.
    Senior Member

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    Lolderp, I thought you were talking about something different.

    Nothing to do here...
     
  5. xzamplez

    xzamplez Ancient
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    I know, I was joking.

    I don't know what the weapons on the map are, so it's going to be very hard to get my point across.

    Besides, the map probably won't change, so what's the point...
     
  6. Stevo

    Stevo Drunken Bantersaurus Rex
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    I've not played this yet... just ran around for about 15 minutes checking it out.

    Although the map looks really nice and aesthetically it's very unique, and the central atrium is beautiful... I just dislike the layout greatly.

    I feel like all of my movement is restricted and there's not a lot of possibilities to choose from besides following the path you're already given. With that said, there's also a lot of 'dead end' regions. Like the teleporter platforms, or GL spawn... They only have one way out. But, at least it's going to create a different playstyle compared to the last two maps :)
     
  7. Pegasi

    Pegasi Ancient
    Senior Member

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    I played a couple of games on this during the testing phase, but how it played for me really changed when it was an actual tournament match. That changed my perspective on it somewhat.

    Teles are hella abuseable. If someone's in one of the bases with even slight cover to get out of sight, you can take them one shot and they've still got a better chance of escaping through tele than you have of catching them due to the split side nature of the map. Distinct halves aren't a bad thing by any means, but I think the teles aren't conducive to this map's style of play at all, nor do I think they solve any particular issue that warrants their inclusion.

    That pit between GL and lift needs to be more obvious, or even just removed. Now granted, apparently I'm one of the dumbest people ever to walk this earth because, as Vivid will testify, I fell in to that thing with alarming regularity even in the second game when I should have remembered it was there. But the issue with having the pit there in the first place is that it's between a high and a low platform. When walking forwards, the drop makes it look like there's no pit there, just a drop down to cannon platform. Bungie maps demonstrate how any death pit should show at least some indication of where it is. Yes you could argue that this promotes map knowledge, but there's a difference between including things which need to be learned to do well on the map, and deliberately trying to catch players out with a death pit. I think this is definitely a case of the latter, it feels like the design is actively trying to make players fall in to it rather than putting it there as a hazard to guide play. But most important I don't feel it enhances the map at all.

    I don't personally see the need for a pit there. There's another one right in front of it, and all it does is make you jump to get off GL platform. It's already dangerous enough considering you can't jump back out in to bases, and imo the main problem with forcing jumps as heavily as this map does is that jumping leaves you vulnerable. The middle of the map is already the most vulnerable place on the map, and GL plat is already the most vulnerable position in the middle area, making it so that the only exit also forces players to jump, predetermining their path for a short amount of time and leaving them much more vulnerable to a sniper shot or even 1-2 DMR shots, just seems utterly pointless and complete overkill. I like how the middle gap where CPU sits requires a jump, I think that's a fair trade of extreme vulnerability for A) a good reward if custom is there and B) a valuable path. But the jump from GL to cannon doesn't put you in a very good position, nor is there any real reward.

    I quite like the design of this map even though it highlights how bad I am at slow play, I think it does what it's trying to do very well. But I think the two main niggles I have with it really colour the experience. Perhaps this is because they play off two of my weaknesses (using tele systems and, apparently, remembering death pits that killed me less than a minute ago), but I feel that without them the map would play a lot more solidly. As it is, the teles slow down things in a really forceful way (there's a difference between having a map that plays slow overall, which this is in basic layout terms, and one which has one glaringly game slowing feature that's very hard to play around) and the death pit just doesn't seem to serve any real purpose.

    That said, and even though I got royally handled at the start of the first game and throughout the second, I like the design overall. I'd prefer if there were more opportunity for fighting within the bases, as it seems like the moment one of those encounters starts one player will just run away and generally succeed, but the side to side snipe battles are very satisfying and GL is surprisingly unobtrusive, very hard to pull off on a 1v1 map, especially one as corner-y as this.
     
    #27 Pegasi, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  8. Shanon

    Shanon Loves His Sex Fruits
    Senior Member

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    Just that whole platform where GL is a deathtrap. The cons severely outweigh the reward, which resulted with the second game only focusing on the other side of the map.

    However, there were some interesting tactics that came into play utilizing the "good" side of the map which I enjoyed quite a bit.
     
    #28 Shanon, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012

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