Well, I believe the term religion refers to the beliefs of those followers. You uh... never mind. By the way, instead of quadruple-posting to address multiple points, you can click the multi-quote button to add multiple quotes to your post. In addition, you can click the edit button to delete or modify posts. They should be in the bottom-right side of your posts. ------>
But if I accept my sins, then that means that I am admitting that morality is objective (I believe this was brought up in this debate, or maybe another). But I don't believe that morality is objective.
I don't believe that we need to have high-standards, even Christianity seems to be divided in how God views us. I would like to know why you went Atheist... If it was because of logic and science, then you should stop thinking that science is everything, there are millions of things out there that science has not found an explanation to, science is just a substitute for what common sense tells us. It's obvious that what goes up, must come down. But Science does not explain where these laws of physics originated, surly things could be upside down, such as what goes down must come up. But it's not like that, order was established within the rules of principals, but by what, God of course. Anything could be anything, science does not prove everything.
I'm not very good at the script thing and editing. Anyway, I never said we are better than you. I am only saying we need to hold ourselves up to high standards. Why do I care? A better question is why shouldn't I care. When I say it's 100% your choice that doesn't mean i'm just going to stop talking to you about it. If you want me to stop talking to you about it i'll respect your wishes and let you make your choice. Since your on these forums I just felt like you want to hear it. You can be totally against it, but the fact that your hear shows you have interest in the matter. My Goal here isn't to convert you. That's your job. My goal is simpley to spread the loving message of God to everyone I can. There is a reject button, but unfortunately the Bible teaches that leads to a place called Hell. I don't like when Christians try to use scare tactics to get people to convert. That's the wrong message. God doesn't want to scare you. He wants you to redeem yourself. Jesus paid that price for you. His gift is free. I don't think it's an object either. We have to accept that we commit acts of sin. Am I misunderstanding?
Science isn't a simple, "Well duh, this and this happens because of this..." which is why it is a major branch of learning. And nothing has the answers to everything; neither is science a substitute for common sense. They are somewhat exclusive, you know? And true, no one knows for sure the origins of the universe; is science wrong for not knowing the answer?
And religion proves next to nothing, not even itself. But besides that, I went Atheist not because I orgasm over science and logic. I went atheist for a few reasons. One, would be that I completely disagree with the ideas of all religions. Two would be I dont believe in an omniscient and omnipotent super being that is all loving but loves his own creation enough to send some to hell for sins and mistakes they are condemned for before they are born, and because we are imperfect from his own creation. I don't believe in heaven and hell because I dont believe that from reality we can end up in sci-fi after we die. I believe that we just end up like before our birth. I don't believe in religion just so if its right, I get into heaven, because as Ive said, an eternity in anything scares me, and I don't want to lie to my conscience by believing in something my mind doesnt. Those are some reasons I became an atheist. Obviously, science and logic do have to do with it, and although science might not have all the answers, the ones it does have are mostly fact. But you asked for reasons that arent science and logic, so I gave you other reasons. EDIT: Also rain, I wrote a whole post on last page in response to your post. No one has responded to the majority of it. So far, only the top paragraph has been quoted... No you didn't. What I meant though was, you said something like, "Dont act like them, we hold a high standard" or something like that. The point being that that sounds like your high standard of living, which I think I have one too, it sounds like you think it is lowly to act like me or something because I dont follow the same code for living... And saying its my job to convert, again, it, to me, feels like my lifes purpose is to convert. despite having my own personal ability to choose, and despite having my own opinion, I need to convert. And saying that, "you have a choice, but the bible says that one leads to hell" I said it in my long post last page that wasnt responded to, but thats just stupid. To say, "here, totally your choice. No real right or wrong answer. But one leads to hell" is just a ridiculous thing to say imo.
lol a little bit. Here's the definition, objective (the context being morality): not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice. In other words, let's use the ten commandments as an example. If these commandments were objective, then they are not interpretable, if you break a commandment then you broke a rule. I hope I explained this well enough. EDIT: Here's another example of objective rules. When you die if you are not faithful, you go to hell. No summing up your life's achievements and failures. It's a rule set in stone (lol I just got the religious pun of that).
I know you want Pigglez to answer, but this question got to me also. Science and logic were MY main reasons. While I was never a strong believer, I did use to believe in a God. I honestly do not see what is wrong with science. Just because it strives to find the most logical proof based answer to the universes questions means it should be ignored until it has the perfect answer and explanation to everything. Even though there are things that science has not found out yet, does not make it any less valid. Plus that number is shrinking fast. Common sense is a substitute for science, not the other way around. Plus I do not see how logic is not a valid reason for not believing in God.
Hes saying that sin isn't objective, but accepting Jesus to pay for your sins is accepting without you own interpretation or feeling to the matter, making it objective, which he believes it isnt. EDIT: Oh and btw, to radiant, saying not to say science and logic are reasons is like if I said to you, "Why are you a christian, and dont say because you have faith and believe in God"
Maybe you could link me to the other debate because I still am so confused on what you guys are trying to say.
I'm going to answer in subsequent order. I believe that Earth is just a Trial, God loves us all, but he wants see how we act on our own, he wants us to have Faith in him, to believe in him. This is why he gives us a trial, to see if we love him as much as he loves us. Heaven is not even classified as Sci-fi... It's fantasy... But regardless, you do not know if these places exist or not, so why are you taking such a large risk over something so little. Why would an eternity in happiness scare you, I don't see how anyone could not want that. Heaven can be morphed to what you want it to be, so how could you even get bored. We are given obvious roads to hell, and almost all religions that believe in God are correct, remember God wants Faith, not obedience, if you show to him that you have Faith in any religion then he will accept you, at least that's how I interpret it. I am not 100% Christian, I added common sense in how God would act.
I dont get how everytime I explain how I think eternity is bad, it is ignored and then I am asked again... so for the umpteenth time... heres a copypasta of the post from two pages ago that was basically ignored. Imagine Awesome, imagining is great and all, but your imagination has to have a line drawn between reality and fantasy imo. And imo, going from the reality of life to sprititual fantasy land seems weird. You go from a grounded life of reality, to suddenly existing in an invisible super wonderland in the sky with God, all of the greatest people in history... or at least the ones who believed in this like you, and other people, for the rest of eternity. Going from a finite life where doing something means something. Experiencing emotion is possible and meaningful, to an infinite life where you are alive but dead, and its not like you can accomplish anything in heaven. You are dead on earth, so that means its not like you have this eternity to do anything productive. And as said a lot of times in this thread, emotions and feelings like happiness, sadness, excitement, fear... etc... all possible because life is finite, and so are those feelings. And the fact you have opposite feelings to counteract each other, balance your feelings and keep you from flat-lining on a feeling. Which is what happens when you have a specific feeling for a long time, like sitting on your leg til it goes numb. Being happy for that long will just flatline. I showed a video a little before... I dont want to go lookin for that vid again, so Ill just summarize it. It shows squidward from spongebob, its an episode where he moves to "Squidville", aka, his basic paradise place. His perfect utopia. So it goes through a montage in which he starts his first day doing all his favorite things. As days go on you can see him clearly getting sadder and sadder, as the thrill of such awesome happiness wears off... The point of the vid, besides a laugh or two lol... is to show the idea that being happy that long cant last, not without the ability to feel sadness to have something to be happier about. Personally, I have no interest in spending an eternity after I die in total misery. Nor would I wish that on my worst enemy, let alone my family and friends. I rather know that when I die I live on through memory and achievement, and that dying is the end. If there is never an end, then there is no point to begin. "All good things come to an end" "Nothing gold can last" I like, nay, Love knowing my life is finite, and that I've accepted THAT, and that when I die, I think it'll be just like when I wasn't born. That, in my opinion, is eternal happiness. Free of consciousness, thinking and problems, free of the burdens of life and pains and sadness, like a veil has been lifted from me. I found the idea that its just like before you were born to be 1Million times more comforting than heaven and hell and purgatory and whatever afterlife there is.
Because if someone were to believe because they were scared about Hell, then they'd go to Hell anyway. You would be "using" God just to get into Heaven. Did you see the Spongebob video Pigglez posted or not? And you are assuming that Heaven can accommodate for all our needs. Ok, so if God accepts all these religions, then the only difference between atheists and religions is our belief in God. However, it's not like we're shunning God; we're just skeptical. (Well, I still think there is a God, but others are more skeptical.) So what's the big deal if we can interpret things differently? It doesn't make anyone more sinful if they don't believe in God.
Yes, but Heaven is not a little city, it is an infinite landscape... You don't do the same things over and over, unless you choose to. Maybe in Heaven you could feel like playing the piano, then you move on to going to an amusement park, then you explore space, then you look down upon the planet, then you play with your brothers, then you exercise, then you jump off a building for the adrenaline, then you go fishing, then you go hunting, then you have a paintball war, then you play tag... See how this list can go on forever...
Allow me to nudge. 1) No changing this. 2) I think we've gone over this many times before, God doesn't send people to hell. 3) Have you ever heard of the New Jerusalem? In Revelation it states that we will return to earth(new one). I know you know earth exists. 4) Religion (or at least the only we're talking about, Christianity) frowns upon just using that religion to go to an after life. You're also lying to your conscience that there is no afterlife, because frankly, you don't know whether you'll go to Heaven/hell or you'll just be gone, like you were before birth. Now I don't know about you, but I'm personally more frightened by not being able to exist, period.
Because you can, then start to believe that there is. I just explained that... Because, God wants you to have Faith in him as well. If you don't believe in God then why would he want you?
Doesn't matter. I don't think you understood what I was getting at. It wasn't about saying if you do it over and over you lose the thrill. Thats just the only example I thought of. The point was showing that without sadness, the happier times have less meaning. Which makes them less exciting. No matter if you go from skydiving to swimming with sharks and then rollercoasters. It only lasts for a time. Then you have nothing to comapare that happiness to. Because happiness only makes you feel great knowing it can end at any time, and that its a much better moment than times of sadness. If you have no end and no times of sadness... you ahve no happiness. No matter how awesome of things you decide to do. Thats what Im saying. Sure, heaven may be awesome for a while, but when that time comes that you flatline, lose the thrill and bore out... what then? You still have all eternity. EDIT: To aMoeba... I mean afterlife as in heaven and hell. And I dont see a thing bad at all with not existing. It means you are free from everything, from pain and sadness and happiness and whatever. Ultimate rest. And really, I dont think it matters on what you are most scared of, because just cause you are afraid doesnt mean that stops it. I may say Im somewhat unnerved by heaven and hell, but Im not saying they cant exist because of that. I dont think they exist because thats taking the reality of life you spent all of your time on earth with, and then heading to super fantasy land after you die. Thats what I say makes it unbelievable.