That was a very different situation. When Halo 3 came out, forge was used as a spawn and weapon placement tool, with a small emphasis on moveable object placement. Foundry and Sandbox were released to allow for the change in use and increased forge potential that became apparent. Bungie saw what people really wanted from this tool and adapted it as much as possible with a DLC to allow for that. With both Reach and Halo 4, we all know what forge is capable of being and what the most dedicated forgers would like to see. Since we're already calling for these things before Halo 4's release, the Halo 3 argument of potential only becoming apparent after release doesn't apply here.
what if i use Tempest and Ridgeline as examples? ya most of the objects were the same skin, but they added and a few new things and still gave us new areas to forge atleast. that is was leads me to still be optimistic in Halo 4 DLC
If its paid DLC I wont be getting it and a lot of other people wont be either. Forged maps should ideally come with the game (even free DLC limits amount of people that use that map) I can see forge getting better, Not in technical advancement way(until halo 7/8/9 on 720) But in a way like introducing more trait zone features, Like Press RB to activate buttons that activate activateable doors and unique random things like are a possibility.
So, I played Murder Miners yesterday, and it really influenced my view on how Halo should move. It's so flexible.. normally, when I come up with a concept in Halo, I have to change it repeatedly because of piece/budget constraints. In Murder Miners, I felt so much freer to make whatever I want.. and my map is turning out just like I envisioned it. That's how I want Halo to go - not necessarily to the block level, but in the direction of opportunity.
In murder miner's defense, there was just halo inspired maps made within it, it didn't start out with them and was more a "rip off" if you want to call it that of arena deathmatches done in smp minecraft mods.
There's another big reason to be less than optimistic, which is how they started handling DLC in Reach. In Halo 3, DLC was made free after a certain amount of time, and therefore everybody could have Foundry and do "real" forging. In Reach, they switched the policy so that DLC is never free, and on top of that they started leaning more on forged maps in matchmaking. That combination tells you why Tempest (a decent map to forge on) was never popular for forging, and same with Ridgeline. Of course you can still make a map in Reach's DLC if all you require for satisfaction is making a map you personally enjoy - but getting people to test DLC forge maps is much harder, and getting them in matchmaking will probably never happen at all.
@Titmar I don't suppose that matters very much. I've never heard of this map or played on it, and I'm sure quite a few people haven't either (including Nutduster, given the wording of his post). I won't go as far as to say that almost no one has because I know you've heard of it yourself. Just pointing this out.
Yes, exactly. There may be one but I've never seen it. Foundry became popular in H3 because 1) it was far and away the best forge map there was at the time, and 2) that DLC was made free eventually so that everyone could have it. I have a hard time picturing 343 releasing forge-specific DLC for Halo 4, for the reasons Pegasi explained; and if they did, I doubt it would be a quarter as popular as the on-disc maps, unless they include some functionality or palette that just blows the other three out of the water.
I know right? It's an amazing feeling knowing your map will turn out exactly how you want it. No framerate, no block limitations, multiple textures to choose from, etc. Glad to see you're enjoying it. J Force deserves the support, they listen to their fans. Can't wait for the full game release!
Not quite true. Only the Heroic became free. The Legendary and Mythic map packs are both still paid for, so it wasn't something they started with Reach at all, it's something they started in Halo 3 immediately after the Heroic. I believe it's something to do with achievements, in that the Heroic didn't have any associated achievements, but anything that did would remain paid forever. Probably just a way to excuse keeping them paid for by making out that it's game-like content. This doesn't undermine your point, since either way we're still in a situation today where I can't see future DLC ever becoming free. I just wanted to point out that this wasn't a Reach phenomenon by any means, and even affected Sandbox during the period where forge was still taking steps forward by means of DLC.
You're right Peg, I was misremembering things. I actually tried to Google some info on that but the first link I saw was an article about the DLC with Foundry in it being given away for free, so I assumed I was remembering correctly... But yeah, bottom line is that DLC is not a good vehicle for forge, for several reasons. Matchmaking is probably the biggest, but simply being able to test your own maps in good-sized lobbies is also up there. Personally I wish they'd get away from map pack DLC. I understand that they can't, but it's always been problematic at best, except in Halo 2 when eventually everyone had it. I'd much rather they pick our pockets in almost any other way - armor permutations, skins, spartan ops-type content. Multiplayer suffers from the integration of DLC - it divides the playlists and reduces their individual populations, and the people who paid for the maps are unlikely to play them except in the dedicated playlists, which quickly get stale since you're usually playing a very small pool of maps. That forge DLC is untenable is really just icing on the cake. But they'll always sell more maps (for more money) than they could sell of any other kind of content, and they won't bother developing new maps if we're not paying for them, so it's silly to talk about. (My big wish for Halo 5: a full-featured map editor that either replaces forge or works separately from it, so that community members can make real maps. Then 343 can release the best of those as free DLC that requires little dev resource commitment from them, and concentrate their paid DLC efforts on anything else that would make a buck.)
Won't happen. And halo 4 isn't even out yet, so why are you already whining about the stuff you want in Halo 5? Keep the topic to Halo 4 related stuff.
I totally agree. The issue is this: the reason it's the worst thing to have as DLC for us is the same reason that it's best for them: maps are the things people care way more about because they forum such a fundamental part of the MM experience, thus they're able to charge the most for them and are most likely to get masse purchases. But obviously, for our part, this has all the downsides your mentioned. The interesting part is how long it can continue as the most lucrative form of DLC, since the whole Reach situation where I bought 3 map packs and basically never get to play any of them has really soured my desire to buy in to the model. If I'm totally honest, I can still see myself buying Halo 4 DLC without a second thought, but I think there's a lot to be said for how much I really love Halo and so adopt a "must have it" approach. I think there are plenty of people who this isn't true of, and I wonder if anyone has had their interest in the Halo map pack model genuinely cut off by the experiences (or lack thereof) in Reach to the point where they straight up won't bother in Halo 4. Sadly I think DLC purchases are more reliant on the image that the game itself holds than any legacy of experience with DLC in past titles, but I kinda hope I'm wrong on this so that 343 get the message that the current model isn't working when DLC sales aren't as high as they should be.
were it everywhere you would have seen it by now lol. I'm sure there will be one somewhere, probably Halocouncil since or reddit someone over there has the leaked version. I just don't want to go searching to avoid possible spoilers.