This has happened to me several times and for the most part, I've found out ways to make it work, but for someone who regularly posts their maps into testing lobbies, I recently ran into this issue: what should I do about conflicting feedback? I understand people have different opinions on certain aspects of maps and gameplay which is actually a good thing since you can get multiple perspectives on something, but it can sometimes get to a point where I'm like...wait what? This recently happened to one of my maps that I put into Ascend's and Max's testing lobby where in one lobby, the players thoroughly enjoyed the map and its gameplay only having minor issues with it that were, for the most part, only visual issues or suggestions on making it look more aesthetically appealing where as in the other lobby, most of the feedback was talking about how the layout and the actual design of the map was flawed with most people stating actual issues that were quite profound. I do expect a variety of opinions when it comes to feedback but it's odd when I hear completely opposite thoughts on the same map. So does anyone have any feedback on feedback being given? I'd also be interested to hear if this has happened to anyone else too and how they went about it. Also I'm not trying to callout either testing lobby for doing something wrong cause in all honesty, nothing here is really wrong. Each lobby gave their honest feedback on a map presented to them and that's all that is being asked of them. My only issue is finding a solution to this for me personally.
I always tell people to focus on two things. Reoccurring feedback and feedback from trusted and experienced forgers. Any Jo-Shmo can throw out a complaint about a map. It's easy. The really important stuff is the stuff you hear over and over from multiple people in different settings. The one advantage people have with Forge maps as compared to maps in MM is that they feel directly entitled to the map being altered based on their own experiences and likes. Some people have better filters for this kinda thing than others but still, it is super critical to isolate and focus on feedback you hear time and time again. These are things that deviate from nit-picky preference and snap judgments. Now the next part is really subjective and varies from person to person. Have people you trust. Most basic example. Who's opinion would you trust more, a person with a 4v4 in MM or a person who just started Forging yesterday? Duh, option one is the ringer but you as the Forger have to learn to hear their advice, not just do what they would do. At the end of the day, it's not like either of these people have more valuable opinions, one is just more experienced. You want to impress both of them either way. The more experienced person can tell you things they learned and maybe expand your own frame of reference but you are never obligated to change something just for them. Just like the Jo-Shmo in situation one. They are just one person. The most important thing to remember is that everyone will always have ways to "improve" your map. Everyone has their opinions. You, as the Forger, decide what YOU want. I'm a firm believer in the fact that you'll never, ever, satisfy everyone. At the least, satisfy yourself.
I look at feedback as notification of a possible issue. I then either try to watch film that will provide evidence, or try to recreate something similar myself. After seeing or experiencing the issue that was brought up, I decide whether it requires me to change something. Sometimes making a change that seems positive can have side effects that actually make things worse. The person giving the feedback isn't expected to make that determination; it's something that I, as the person that's designed the map and understands it's purpose and balance best, should be able to determine. There are many times where a person brings up legitimate feedback on something that makes the map unenjoyable for them, and I just completely ignore it. Complaining about specific weapons is a good example of this. It CAN be a legit thing to complain about. It can also just be the result of an extremely biased preference that individual has. Listen to feedback, but don't change your map based on feedback. Only change your map based upon evidence, after weighing the possible impact (which you, with your unique understanding of the design, are best equipped to understand). If you aren't sure whether or not a change will bring your map closer to, or farther from, the way you want it to play, then you probably would benefit from being more thorough in the planning of your map. If you don't understand the overall purpose of the map, and how the purpose of each area fits into that, then you'll never be able to make good use of feedback. I'm just making this as a general comment, not trying to make any accusations.
You could always just make multiple versions of the same map in order to satisfy a wider range of players.
Honestly I feel like the feedback a lot of people say in the lobbies are too based on biases like maps need to play to how they think good maps are but if you were to do that than your maps would be too similar to other maps and in my opinion become boring. Many people that participate in those lobbies also play very casually. It's fine to get impressions from them but for balancing purposes their feedback won't be too informative. Also many factors affect gameplay such as a player having more map knowledge and the other team feeling like the map is unbalanced yet they failed to use the map to their advantage. As chunk said look for evidence for what people are saying. I've made changes to my maps before out of things that I saw that no one mentioned because it didn't promote the way I wanted the gameplay to unfold. I've made a few spawn changes before and it seemed to fix the flow without changing the layout at all. So just make your own observations and make the judgements. I watch the playtests multiple times to see how players are moving around and where the engagements take place. In a recent lobby I got a complaint about a ledge they felt was too powerful however the enemy all bunched up in an area that facilitated how that played out. I didn't change anything because I foresee that as players play the map more they will use the play spaces more effectively and that won't be an issue in the future.
Mr. Del yo uhave a point. A lot of feedback is first time player feedback. A lot of the dynamics involved in a map can't always be understood the first time you play it. However, I do consider first time player's comments to see if what they are saying is, as Chunk stated, proven by evidence. Thte thought process is basically to see if the comments considered other things about the map that may make their statement less valid. For instance, if there is a way to counter a strong position or weapon that they haven't discovered, and would if they played it a few times. I believe there should be rewards for map knowledge, and if someone doesn't look around enough to notice the details and possibilities for varying gameplay, then that's their fault as a player, not yours as the designer.
Would be interesting to hear what each side has to say about the other side's opinion xD. Thing about opinions is if you ask for one you're going to get one (Well, at least one ). Some people treat their opinions like laws and expect you to obey them. Others, like myself, know that our opinions are worth at best two cents. If someone posts a negative opinion about your work you know in your heart whether or not it has any substance. Anything either side said that was helpful is what you're looking for, not who's right.
I might have sounded a little harsh but I agree with you. It's important to hear what everyone says I just say it that way because I feel to many people will change things without proper testing. And sometimes the feedback really is an opinion and can change a map for the negative because someone prefers a sword in an area. But I do believe that art is very important to lead players through the map and to frame lanes so that players don't get lost but yeah we can only do so much.
A lot of this is the main reason I ask customs browser goldfish "y u leave" because of the recurring feedback, by itself its usually really bad feedback but if you hear the same complaints a lot it gives you a great idea of what to improve. I trust feedback from forgers if they don't try to get me to change the map unreasonably outside of its intended vision or how I want to play. I say to always focus on making your map fun before you start getting into the whole balancing part, you want a map that puts a smile on your face and plays how you want it to, all the balance in the world wont make a boring map more fun.