Design Talk: Readability

Discussion in 'Halo and Forge Discussion' started by MartianMallCop, Nov 11, 2015.

By MartianMallCop on Nov 11, 2015 at 7:42 PM
  1. MartianMallCop

    MartianMallCop Legendary
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    With the excitement of more forge maps coming to matchmaking soon and forge's release in December, we have released the second installment of the Design Talk Series on our Youtube channel. In this episode, watch MartianMallCop (myself) discuss the topic of readability. We'll talk about designing your map with the ability of players to understand map geometry and map functions in mind.


    DESIGN TALK: Readability
     
    #1 MartianMallCop, Nov 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2015
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Comments

Discussion in 'Halo and Forge Discussion' started by MartianMallCop, Nov 11, 2015.

    1. Goat
      Goat
      The script is good, but this once again has the issues from the previous video:d

      1. If you mess up on a word, re-record it. It's unprofessional if the narration stutters, and it shouldn't be difficult to swap audio around or redo early lines. You're reading from a script, so there's no excuse to keep in those mistakes.
      2. Talking over unrelated footage. Halfway through you are discussing clutter but running through gameplay on Empire without showing examples. This loses the viewer's attention. Show me why Exile is bad rather than simplying panning across a random piece of the map. Why is that unreadable?
      3. Monotone narration. Not everyone is capable of speaking naturally with a wide array of vocal inflection, but it wouldn't hurt to put some effort into it.

      I thought you were using Empire as an example because IMO it's one of the most unreadable maps in Halo 5. But I don't think it was properly disected.

      Again, the script is good, and this series will prove to be informative. But this is twice now I've found myself losing interest halfway through the video.

      If the intention of the series is to make a boring college lecture, then by all means ignore this post. Otherwise, you guys ought to have more fun with it.
      Last edited: Nov 13, 2015
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    2. MartianMallCop
      MartianMallCop
      @A 3 Legged Goat . Thank you for your feedback. It's great to look at feedback to make the series more interesting for viewers. One thing I will say however is with the particular part where I spoke about visual clutter. The example shown was Exile and I continued to explain it a bit through the Empire footage after the example. (I should have directly stated Exile as being an example without implying it though by showing the pan of it). Thx
    3. Goat
      Goat
      The Regret and Citadel examples were great (although I actually think Regret isn't very readable either).

      The biggest thing for me personally is to see more examples and more explanation of why they're being used as examples. That makes it easier to use the video as reference when discussing these design principles and better serves as an educational tool.

      Also surprised Plaza wasn't shown at all, but I understand why tackling a crowd pleaser may have been intimidating.
    4. MartianMallCop
      MartianMallCop
      I can understand your concern with my choice of examples. The main purpose of the examples were to highlight techniques designers could use to make your map readable rather than critiquing the maps readability as a whole. For instance, the example of Regret was to show a clean example of subtle color designation which Regret very successfully pulls off. Whether or not Regret has fully readable geometry is arguable obviously but that is not the point of the video.
    5. Goat
      Goat
      Indeed i am aware of the purpose of the Regret and Empire examples, although the first one on Empire was unexpected to me. I've never seen somebody make the mistake of jumping outside of the map there when the railing curves towards the building and makes no hint of leading players to jump over it. Anywhere that suggests there is a hidden jump "outside the boundaries" of the maps like on Rig or Coliseum tends to have some kind of visual cue to direct players in that direction.
    6. MartianMallCop
      MartianMallCop
      I've actually seen people jump off to that platform many times, especially in the first week of the game. There's also another one of these platforms on blue side as well. The platform is clearly within jumping distance of the player which suggests that it can be used by the player. While it is not a map breaking issue as people die on it once and never try it again that first time they do it shows that its misleading. A simple fence by the edge of that platform would be enough to sway the player away from it. Overall, I did find it to be an excellent example of misleading map geometry.
    7. Ray Benefield
      Ray Benefield
      Great discussions on the episode between you too. I do agree with Goat that I've noticed my mind drifting to what is happening in the video rather than what you are saying.

      I think a little more focus on Landmarks would have been good as well. As something I've noticed with Halo 5 is that readability on some of these maps is low because a lot of them have TOO cohesive of a theme and it is hard to quickly discern from one to another. Regret being one of those, landmarks help with these as, by nature they can be made more distinct than the environment around them and I think Regret could use a little more of that. Plaza I think does a good job of this, but because Plaza is so windy, vertical, segmented... understanding how spaces are connecting are what hurts its readibility.

      Anyway, great stuff man regardless. It was a really good script and I'm looking forward to more.
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    8. xzamplez
      xzamplez
      Good job, Mall Cop.

      The imperfections like stuttering don't bother me, but it does give the video less of a polished/professional field.

      I also agree that the video should be a visual of what you're talking about.

      I actually believe that most maps on H5 are visually cluttered, and even to the extent where gameplay is sacrificed beyond orientation (over-textured walls make grenade bounces unpredictable/players getting stuck on protruding doorways/pipes.


      I look forward to the next video.
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    9. Psychoduck
      Psychoduck
      Unfortunately, I think that this is not a characteristic of Halo 5 so much as a characteristic trend within the gaming industry itself. As artists get more and more freedom to push the boundaries on how much detail can be incorporated into a space, art begins to get in the way of gameplay.
    10. xzamplez
      xzamplez
      "As artists get more and more freedom to push the boundaries of how much detail can be incorporated into a space, Forgehub begins to get in the way of gameplay"

      -Psychoduct


      Wise words. And agreed.
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    11. darkprince909
      darkprince909
      [​IMG]

      Edit: I'll put that in a spoiler since it takes up so much space. And to add something of value, I think for the most part the maps are more readable than in Halo 4. On some of the last DLC maps, where it was all basically just caves, I had no idea where I was half the time. It's easier to spawn and know where you are with some of the distinct details in some of the maps in H5.
    12. The Bilzo
      The Bilzo
      Try annotating your examples with graphics. They don't need to be complicated but you should take advantage of the fact a video is visual.
      At the moment it feels like a podcast with b-roll and that isn't very engaging.

      Also you touch on things then don't really dig into it in any depth. It's all a bit vague and lacking clear contrasting examples of good and bad.

      Good effort though, keep making them and they will get better.
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