For the longest time now, me and my forge buddy have been arguing over this concept of using decorative materials to make structures Vs. building blocks and bridges. Of course I use decorative with bridges and blocks but not as a straightforward put a block down and walk on it. Could it be that I am just insane and don’t stick to the basics, or that I find the simple stuff too boring and missing excitement. What are your thoughts on this?
Tw;dr (too wide didn't read) Start a new line between each screenshot so we can read the thread without haveing to scroll left several pages
Hard for me to comment since my maps tend to get large and elaborate enough to eat up most of my budget (Speleology is an exception though, mostly because of where I chose to build it). By necessity I have to use walls, blocks, and bridges (with a few inclines) to make most of my maps; then decorative stuff is added for visual flair and as far as my budget will allow. I think it also matters if you're basically building structures in the open, as with most of your screenshots here, or more enclosed maps; the enclosed ones end up requiring you to build walls, ceilings, and often floors, and decorative just isn't a suitable option when you have that much to cover. Hypothetically though - I'm fine with whatever meets these criteria: - Should look good (cleanly forged) and distinctive/unique; should not look extremely boring or so indistinct that you can't tell what map you're even on; should also not look like an over-decorated mess. - Should be functional above all, unless it's an aesthetic map only. Players need to be able to move around on it without tripping, bumping and getting hung up. - And finally, shouldn't cause lag. Decorative objects have more polygons so if your map is lagging, even if you're under budget, I'd start by ditching those and going to a plainer design.
Anyway after readying this I would have to say I use basic peices. The sort of maps that I'm most confident with building are very small interior buildings without much room for decoration. EDIT: Thanks for fixing the layout ^-^
Fair enough, I can agree with the lag, I have seen people use up all their money trying to impress but it lags the crap out of you. But as far as what you say the Helms Deep map, the big huge one, has been tested on invasion and so far no complaints of lag, only getting lost inside but that's with the start of every new map. The map congested with rocks does seem to have a few points with getting hung up so I will need to make some adjustments thank you. [br][/br]Edited by merge: Is there anymore opinions? Come on I know there are a bunch of die hard creative people out there. You going to let a bunch of simple MLG maps take over forge?
Simplicity / superior gameplay will always win over aesthetics. BUT, aesthetics are extremely important. A lot of those MLG maps probably play great, but i have no desire to download or play any of them. Their layouts and designs look like they are 5 years old. Because they are. They are all copies and inspirations from old arena maps and MLG maps that were made in H3. They just look so damn boring. I am the same as you. When i forge, i always try to find the most interesting and unique way to accomplish what i am doing. Unfortunately though, the budget, and the framerate can suffer from this. I often end up having to go back when the map is done and simplify a lot of my structures. But i dont mind, because i still want everything to look awesome. If it harms framerate or budget and needs to be changed, so be it.
I've nearly finished a map (Coastal Pipeline) which uses almost no standard blocks. I tried finishing the bases with them but they looked messy, so I just used the Large Brace merged deeply with the ground so only the ends poke out. Looks much better than the blocks. I guess it varies between maps. If I really need a big floor then I probably will use a coliseum wall but then I'll had features on top of that, like upside down bridges which are ever-so slightly raised to make walkway markings on the ground.
Really enjoyed this thread, thanks guys. So when I'm toying with a map, I guess I just try to use the piece that makes the most sense for what I am trying to do. But I rarely like to use the "buildings" as it seems as though I'm always playing maps with them, and, well, they get old. So I really like to build my own spaces (easier said than done of course). And I am also very keen on finding new uses for the same pieces. Currently I am working on a map that uses snipers nests as a one way chute from a top to bottom floor.
When I made my map The Factory, I mostly used standard building blocks and walls, though I also had decorative stuff -- the rocks and the circular reactor building thingy were there from the start. I'm working on another map right now, my try at a city map, tentatively titled "Free Fire Zone". In this case, I've definitely avoided standard blocks, bridges, and walls, preferring to use platform and Decoration objects to form walls and rooftops. So I guess it varies, depending on what approach I decide to take and what kind of aesthetics I'm going for. However, if I can't make something look good, then I'm usually very reluctant to Forge it at all. Oh, and in most cases the Buildings suck. The Buildings must die. Except for Bunker, Round. Bunker, Round is good.
I'm so glad to find other people who try to break out of the simple design. I agree the buildings, except for round bunker, sucks, but try flipping or tossing them in different ways, you may be surprised as to how a change in approach can make something simple look elegant. Such as the 2 tower it creates a kind of hanging room feel or the pyramid, an extravagant walkway with a wall to lean against for protection. There is so much you can do and if you’re having trouble with the budget it’s probably because you are building too small and not expanding your objects. Such as making a stair case with steps, lag and a waste of time cause it’s difficult for the player to walk on. Think not of a huge bridge but more of cutting corners and breaking out of flat plane thinking. Like a wall, it may seem very plain but put 2by2 platform in the center and it forms a design. Or instead of having a long hallway, try breaking out some windows on it. You may be surprised how that can change game play if you can see the person behind it. I know that some of the ideas I’ve stated are like, yeah duh, but many people just want to get the map laid out without thinking of possibilities. I made one change to a person’s map one time and it made it look ten times better because it gave interest to the design of the map. As for people making cosmetic maps that are not playable, I try to find ways that they can be playable. You just have to cut some of the fat but keep the general idea. By the way the Helms deep map I finished with $3000 with vehicles and gravity lifts (of course after weapons and additional details I broke the budget but the structure was complete). Only because I got away from making just one part nice and focused on the map as a whole. Sure I could put more, but it’s not really needed half the time. Thanks for all your posts, anymore thoughts?
sorry I was quick at making these and forgot.. Since I technically cannot say I am previewing maps cause I want to preview them one at a time. The sinking ship map was made by me and TC6 Survivor called Going Down. The Helms Deep map called Avolanty's Helms Deep is on my file share. The other map with congested rocks is called Infinite I am currently working on it at this time trying to get the kinks worked out. Lastly the night time garden house is called Bart's Manor made by TC6 Survivor again and he changed his name to Fightx2xSurvive. We are both Forge buddies and I have permission from him to post his maps whith mine since we work together all the time. Does that answer everything about the maps? I promise to preview them later on with better pics.
ok cool, they look like pretty epic maps! As for the Decorative Vs. Simple, A map should be as decorative as physically possible as long as it is not negatively affecting game-play. This includes -Lag -General clutter that makes the map hard to navigate/ confusing to navigate. -Overly artisticWhile it may not produce lag, or may not be in the way of combat, certain things can be damned distracting. On a psychological level this would mean your decorations are mistaken by players for being incentives when in reality they are not -or deterrents when they aren't. -Sometimes The game-play you intend to create requires simplicity, in which case decoration would be negatively affecting gameplay. -Awkward Decoration. Its a hard ass fact of life, Forerunners were boring creatures. Meaning; while in your mind, mixing the metal-technological look with the natural setting that forge world take place in sounds poetic, in reality, "beautiful flowing grassy green landscapes, with a wonderful clear waterfall in the background" looks distracting and weird next to some old gray boxes with glassy pointy things. THE POINT is if your going to go for the "aesthetically pleasing", do it right. Main point: It all depends on what type of map you are making. You want to focus on competition and gameplay mechanics, focus on that and do decor as a later embellishment. If you want sinking ship at night with gorgeous vivid explosions and generally a visual blowjob, then focus on building your gameplay around the visuals and make it as complicated visually as you see fit. So "Decoration heavy" or "simple" depends on your intentions, there is no better or worse.
i say decorative....to a point. its very unfortunate to see beautiful maps made here by fellow forgers, go to waste. (I have a problem with this myself) once you're nearing the max budget it gets tough...you want to make the map look good (aesthetics) but also play well. take for example "vanilla" beautiful made map but on "my" tv (47" LG 1080p 240hz led, with the new black xbox running through HDMI cables) i cant even play the map without hitting massive frame-drops .Even something as simple as ASYLUM. looking from Snipe-to-snipe 2x zoomed.....forget about it....frame-drops all over the place... so with that all said, i guess i should rephrase my opinion to - i like both! ha
After all these posts Im really motivated to build a new map Ive been kind of a **** to everyone here on forge hub and I want to apologize for my negative comments. I guess I took forge hub as more of a competitive forge building community when instead everyone is pleasant and helpful and not so competitive. Ive decided to build a map using Horizontal fighting and vertical, a repeat of halo 1 on the campaign level of Two Betrayals(the part where there are two wraiths with two banshees behind infighting with flood and above you is the bridge). I'm thinking of Creating a replica bridge on top of Hemorrhage to join the two cliffs and have entry points for the Spartans outside of the battlefield but when they re-spawn they are closer in the boulder areas. At the end of the bridges using Large antennas to create the rooms and I already have the base design to surround them. In the back behind the rooms(like in campaign) going to recreate the elevator to be used in invasion so when you want to go back down you turn off the gravity lifts with invasion gate and then reactivate with spawning two more. In between off mode using one way shields to catch the player. The map will also provide crossfire below and banshee fighting above near the bridge. The elites will spawn with banshees but not until the next stage starts. I also figured on making a two objective system for different map types one on the ground and one on top. This way the Spartans can choose which one to go to allowing a concept of strategy. Spartans, 4 warthogs, Elites 2 ghosts two wraiths, two shade turrets and boulders(where Spartans spawn) in between to block shots from tank and they get two invincible banshees in the back behind the wraiths. The elites cannot use the banshees only the Spartans can(but in stage two the elites will have banshees not sure how that will work but Ill try.). I'm also giving limited sniper and rocket ammo to the Spartans This map will also be highly decorated and raised up above the cliff with Colosseum walls and rocks to form the extremely steep incline like in the campaign. I also have more ideas (like a third base where you need to go in the third stage to stop the ring from firing on another cliff side) but I need to balance this all out with the budget. I have two other forgers that usually give me a hand, but if your free and wish to help Gamertag's Avolanty.