I actually find it more likely that there was an omnipotent, all-powerful being, than nothing forming nothing. I guess I can't really tell you how God was created, because I'm not sure he had to have been created. I don't know, you've got me. Regardless you're correct with the whole infinite regression point, I don't know, good point though. Let me tell you what my ideas on religion are first. I subscribe to the C.S. Lewis idea of God, that is that there is only one god, but he shows himself differently to each person, to some he is Allah, others God, and others Jehovah, and so on. I don't really believe in miracles, that's more of a Catholic thing. I don't believe that God is some cosmic Santa Claus, who just because you pray for something, and you do good things, will give it to you. Everything has a reason for happening, and it's all part of God's plan. The afterlife is a question that even we Christians aren't sure what it is.(Bad sentence structure, I know, just shoot me.) The problem is that there are some people who take the Bible literally, and others who don't, I actually got in a debate with a Literalist about heaven, because he's convinced that it has to be a physical place. We don't know what the afterlife is like because the only person who died and was reborn went back up there. Anyways I hope this helps you see my way of thinking.
I'd have to say some of the comments I read on the first 3 pages were pretty hilarious, "what, the big bang happened and we were monkeys on earth, yeah right", that's probably not the best way to prove the evolution is wrong. Anyway, I didn't read the next few pages cos its too long. So not sure if someone has brought this up, but did anyone perhaps think that both Evolution AND Creationism are possible at the same time? Perhaps, God (or some higher plane or something superior being) created everything and THEN we evolved from that? Just a thought. Anyway, in all thoughts that I've had on the topic, I'm not too keen on this whole big bang theory, mainly because it points towards a beginning of time, which means that time had a starting point, which is impossible to conceive, but to think that time is infinite, is also impossible to conceive, hence why it does my head in when I think about this stuff too much. I don't have a definite answer or opinion, I more or less have a guess at what I think may be how things are. Its not my "this is right", its more of my "well this has a hell of a lot of flaws, but less than most". I propose the idea of God is a Watchmaker. God created the universe, everything, and all that jazz, and then kinda gave things a push in one direction, and let things be. Just my thoughts. It gives away my view on both the non-existence of free-will, AND that if there is a god/higher-being, that they are largely non-interventionist. Oh, and just a tip for anyone who's pro-creationist. Just wait for the evolutionists/non-creationists to finish their ramblings, and wait for them to get to how things all started, and then just say "well god did that bit". Cos well, you can't really argue back coherently against that. Haha. Oh and one query, as I haven't read the whole thread, did anyone answer about how fossil dating of things millions of years old works if the world/universe is only 6-10 thousand years old. I mean, I personally think that the idea the world is less than 10000 years old is ridiculous, but I'm always interested to hear what people answer the more obvious and notable questions with. Edit: I forgot to mention how ridiculous I thought it was that I saw a Darwinism exhibition on Evolution : An Alternative way of Thinking, whilst I was in Toronto. I mean I'm all for free thought and speech and whatnot, but I was under the impression that Evolution was, at least in this day and age or intellectual thought, the general accepted theory behind current human existence. I guess coming from a country that isn't quite as absurdly christian, I should have expected these things. But still, it was a bit of a shock to the system.
thorIZ, you should've read the last few pages, cuz that's the same idea I proposed, take a look and see if you can try and answer some of the questions I couldn't.
I think the religion you are looking for is called Deism. It was created during the Age of Enlightenment (18th century). It was funny because you explained the idea of deism almost verbatum.
Really? Haha, odd. But as I said, its not something I whole heartedly believe in. More or less something I'll argue to be the devils advocate. Its my "less flaws that most of the others" idea/opinion.
1:We did not start as monkeys, but as single celled organisms then to fish (due to lack of atmosphere at that time) then monkeys 2: Evoloution does not happenn overnight, nor does it happen when it doesnt need to, Evoloution is simply adaption.
Please, all I hear from you people is this. Give us something better. What made monkeys start adapting millions of years ago? We have the stages of the money's evolution, but where do we see the Neanderthal man now? I wonder why there are missing links? Are there any unfully developed humans still? I can't possibly begin to start to believe in evolution. The more I study the world and everything about it, there's no way all this happened by an explosion and by chance. I used to not believe in Creation, but there's absolutely no way everything you see around you came by chance. Now that's what I think.
Tis not monkey's evolution my friend. It is the evolution of man; that is where you are confused. It didn't go Monkey > Neanderthal > Human. The human race branched off and evolved on its own. Where are these so-called "missing links"? They died because they were not quite as suited to the environment as monkeys or what came after. They were there though; haven't you seen skulls of ancient man in a museum? Creationism, in my point of view, is possible only in that there was a god. However, what the bible says is not what really happened in my opinion. There's no science behind it, but I will admit that it's a possibility.
Chance Evolution is anything but chance. It is guided directly by the environment a creature lives in. A Giraffe develops a ridiculously long neck because over countless generations the Giraffes with slightly longer necks were able to survive in greater numbers because they were able to reach trees in their environment that could not be reached by Giraffes without this characteristc. They were then able to mate in higher #'s as well and pass the longer neck trait on to their offspring. Evolution says that a longer neck Giraffe was better suited to exist and therefore is the version we see today. You, and creationists, say that God made Giraffes with extremely long necks and it just happens to work out that it comes in handy for them.
Please, all I hear from you people is this. Give us something better. What made an eternal creator suddenly decide to create a universe thousands of years ago? We have the books describing how people were made, but why do we see fossils now? I wonder why there are so many fossilized skeletons that aren't quite like modern humans? Are there any species alive today that match the bones we keep finding? I can't possibly believe in Creation. The more I study the world and everything about it, there's no way an intelligent creator built this with a purpose. I used to not believe in evolution, but there's absolutely no way everything you see around you was made with purpose. Now that's what I think. See? My argument is just as strong as yours. Stronger actually, since mine has more evidence than "I don't understand how evolution happens, therefore it doesn't happen." Here, in order to help you understand, I'll answer the questions you posed. What made monkeys start adapting? Well, it wasn't just monkeys, it is all life, everywhere. From the very first self replicating molecule, and continuing today, any offspring born with traits that help them to survive and reproduce more successfully than the others has more offspring of its own, and whole populations are changed generation by generation. Where is the neanderthal man? Neanderthals and modern humans share an ancestor, but neanderthals were a distinctly separate species that developed with a combination of being separated from the rest of the population, and huge amounts of time. When humans encountered neanderthals, it is thought they fought over territory, with humanity winning. Missing links are just species that we haven't found fossils for yet. Forming a fossil only happens in extremely rare situations, so we're lucky we've found as many fossils as we have, but in no way does this mean those species never existed. Unfully developed humans? This is a misunderstanding or a deliberate misrepresentation of how evolution works. No species, including **** Sapiens, is a finished product. Evolution has no goal, it was not working to produce people, we just came about because our ancestors were better at surviving than the others in the population, and theirs before them, all the way back to that first replicating molecule. Every single species that has ever existed could be said to be an unfully developed version of whatever descendents they will have, all the way back to that first replicating molecule.
...and to the point of evolution, not ALL members of a species change. For example, a new-born monkey has some of their mother and fathers' traits. His/her off spring only has some of his/her parents' traits. Evolution is survival...The male human is losing hair in un-needed places by the generation.
I should have been more clear. Big Bang as chance, Evolution as in macro (or atleast the one most of you think of). I think micro evolution is true, that's it though.
The two are no different, just different degrees of the same thing. One of thing that tends to confuse people regarding evolution is the misconception that one species just gives birth to a new species. In other words, that the distinction of where a species has evolved into a new species is easily defined, one generation is species x then the offspring of that is species y. This is simply not the case. Evolution is more like the line between adolescent and adult. The two are clearly different, but in the late teens/early 20's it is hard to make the distinction. Look at a photo of someone when they were 17, compare it to a photo of them when they are 25, and it is easy to see that one is a teen, and the other is an adult. Look at 20 and 21 then, or 18 and 19. Still so easy? Not at all. There is no date that a person will wake up and be an adult, that every day before that they were adolescent and every day afterward they will be an adult. Evolution works like that, it is so gradual that there is no point where you can declare this is no longer species x, it has evolved into species y.
More like Big Bang as NOT THE ONLY THEORY OUT THERE! Jeez, a large portion Atheists know more about the bible and related Christian objects than some Christians do, so shouldn't some Christians at least know SOMETHING about our ideas?
What made an eternal creator suddenly decide to create a universe thousands of years ago? He wanted to. We have the books describing how people were made, but why do we see fossils now? I don't understand this question. I wonder why there are so many fossilized skeletons that aren't quite like modern humans? Because they're from apes that have medical conditions. Are there any species alive today that match the bones we keep finding? Yes, and no. Some apes still get the medical conditions, but they're rarer now. I can't possibly believe in evolution. There's no way that everything you see is by chance. There are so many problems with evolutionary theories. Keep reading to see why my argument is a hell of a lot stronger than yours. I will re-answer the questions you asked. What made monkeys start adapting? They didn't adapt to anything. They were created the way they are. Where is the neanderthal man? Neanderthal man does not exist. The entire neanderthal man skeleton was made up by a guy who thought he found a missing link, when later, people discovered that the one actual bone he discovered, was just the skull of an arthritic Frenchman. Same with Lucy. It was created completely by one tooth of an extinct pig. There are no missing links. They never have and will never exist. Unfully developed humans? In a sense, yes. But it doesn't have to do with evolution. People are born with muscle deficiencies and other disabilities, but evolution does not play any role.
Cavemen Are Real Where do you live? I suggest that if it is anywhere near a larger city they will have museums. Go into the museum and see the bones of early man. It's as simple as that. You have avoided being in a museum somehow and have also come up with your "ape with a medical condition theory". What is the nature of the medical condition? Ask yourself if you know what you are talking about or if you have latched onto a convenient unfounded statement with no understanding of what has been found or what types of conditions the bones were found in. Here is what you will find at any museum around the world: Cavemen are real, bro.
Its the most popular one. Please enlighten me, because it may seem that atheists have alot more theories than I think.
What is the nature of the medical condition? The nature of this condition is as unexpected, and unpredictable as birth problems. Nobody knows. And, apes still have these conditions today, and the bones are the exact same. That's what your pretty little science teachers don't tell you. I did, and the proof supports it. Face it. You're wrong.