Personally, I think Bungie is being sarcastic over this entire thing. I mean, come on, they totally dissed Genome. You can't lie to yourself about how amazing that map is, it just doesn't happen.
Let's see... Because these maps blow and I fail to believe bungie fails that much to accept these in a temporary playlist and outright kick Genome to the side. Hell, the things churning out of the rumor mill here are more outlandish that my simple statement.
Nobody is suggesting they tested for gameplay quality. All I and others are suggesting is that they almost definitely applied the same performance testing to these maps as they applied to Genome. We know Genome failed, and we can safely assume that these playlist maps passed, and we can also safely assume that the testing was the same or nearly the same. We don't know the parameters of the tests, and we don't know any specifics about how to avoid or fix the problems. All we can take away from this is that the line of acceptability is somewhere in between these maps and Genome 3.0. We also know from the feedback on Genome as well as past Bungie Updates that object denisty is a major concern that can and will doom many maps' chances at getting into matchmaking. t As time goes on and we get more and more maps added to playlists as well as confirmed failures, the unknown range will tighten up to a point where people have pretty good idea what's acceptable and what isn't on a map with matchmaking aspirations. When there are more confirmed failures it might be useful to have a stickied thread with map links and screenshots of said confirmed failures to give everyone a good idea of where the upper limit lies. AFAIK that list currently consists of Genome which was submitted by MLG and Vanilla which Bungie basically called out by describing its chandalier in a weekly update as an example of what not to do.
They made it one per console so people can't have AFK guests to vote for their favorite map more (What they keep/change/remove is all based on voting).
If i had created any of the maps in the community playlist I would hang up my controller and go and sit in a dark rook for a very long time. Z-Fighting, Bad spawns, Fixed Weapons, One way into places, Ridiculously placed Kill barriers..... What a joke
Hold on. Maps are being DQ'd because of splitscreen lag? But then why are we not allowed splitscreen in this playlist?
As Ladnil stated, the best indication we have at this time is that they are looking primarily at object density (at least with respect to the maps many of us would like to see in MM, ie. more complex designs that many on FH prefer). Splitscreen framerate issues, just like single player framerate issues, are a result of object density (amongst other things, like object choice), but that doesn't mean they're the same thing.
It would be nice if Bungie would give more concrete guidelines on how they "test" the maps. Right now, it's all speculation. After playing some of the community playlist maps, I find it hard to believe that any Bungie staff played these maps much, as they seem "broken", to the forging community. Or maybe the forging community has it wrong, and what we think are good & bad maps, actually aren't. Regardless, I hope they clarify what needs to be done to make maps for matchmaking, as most forgers would love to get their maps played by others.
yes, perhaps we've been wrong all along, and a good map is one with spawns in direct view of high sniper perches, and having many abuseable spots and no kill zones.
However, as it was mentioned in a customs lobby by Ponytar, the MLG maps need to be at least playable in split screen regardless as there is split screen play and the Combine events. While split screen frame rate issues and object density are not the same thing, they do go hand in hand in the end. While it's possible to have screen lag in split screen without excessive/high object density, if you have excessive/high object density you are bound to have screen lag in split screen. Regardless, there really has not been enough information regarding all of this disclosed to the public. We're still in the dark here and the rumor mill is churning away all the same. Back on topic, is it possible we're judging the playlist prematurely? I mean Bungie did state that these aren't winners but merely a taste of the different "styles" of maps that were submitted. This doesn't emply that the maps to come will be of the same "standard"... I hope. Anyhow, perhaps we should wait until the next batch of maps come out to actually evaluate the playlist. I'm sure the next batch will be much better. And as far as Bungie praising these current maps, are you really surprised? It'd be bad PR for them to say the maps suck. They're being extremely fair and open minded by letting such rubbish out. It's obviously a gesture to the community that any body is able to forge a map.
Agreed on all points. Though one small point: Sundance said in the vVv podcast that, whilst the Combine idea is sound, the events themselves in the form we saw won't be returning in 2011. Not that this debunks your point at all, just thought you might find it interesting. Again, all good points which I agree with, though I do think it's a little more complex than simply not judging yet. Much as any judgement should wait for a fair sample, I would think that Bungie are somewhat mindful that first impressions count for something. Even if things do change in terms of standard with the next lineup, I personally can't see it being a drastic change that turns the strong skeptics in to converts. Don't get me wrong, I'm fully on board with keeping a cool head until we see more maps of all types, I just don't maintain a huge amount of hope considering the circumstances. Bungie have form here, and we've seen the same attitude to complex designs vs. dull ones in H3 community Forge outreach projects. There were exceptions to be fair, though (again, perhaps judging prematurely from just one sample set) it seems like the restrictions in Reach Forge only put concrete limits on how complex a design Bungie are willing to look at from a community map. Basically, your advice is sound, though if things don't turn around it isn't gonna break my heart this time simply because I don't maintain as much hope as I once did for how accepting Bungie are of a hardcore community approach to map design.
Agreed. Those H3 community matchmaking maps sucked big time. Especially... what was it? ...Baghdad Polka? Must be. Anyway, I'm excited to see what the next batch looks like. It sucks that (seemingly) there are pretty severe limits on complexity, but it makes total sense to limit them to a high standard of performance. That being said, I think the community map hoppers should cater a bit more towards the community that's generating them... and from what I can tell, we don't mind a few (minor) performance issues, if it gets us some sweet maps. I've played split screen on higher density maps and, while there was a noticeable performance drop, I didn't enjoy them any less. Somebody's gonna whine either way, but I'd like to have an option to play in the forum where I'll whine the least.
Which is why I said that things seem worse now . But you gotta admit that their choice in forge maps was, for the most part, not the best of what the community had to offer at that late stage. The thing is that something along the lines of UM would probably have a decent chance at getting in because of how it integrates with existing geometry rather than building what isn't needed. So perhaps I should be maintaining more hope for the asymms where you can do more interesting things using odd bits of FW. Yeah, hopefully we'll see some more variety in layout either way. I guess one thing to be said is that asking for symmetrical arenas in the forge community was never gonna yield the most original or inspired creations for the most part.
Heard mostly crap about them for days now. Thought I would give them a fair chance and look for myself, loaded up three matches today. My opinion, across the board: Terrible spawn points All jet pack based Unimpressive symmetry Mix it up?
Hey, on spawn point, before I make a thread, is there anyone on here that has posted a guide or something to setting spawn points on a map? I've finished my build, and initial spawn point placed, but what about other spawn points? Where should I put them to be fair? etc..
This is a little off topic, but I'll try to answer in a way that is both on-topic and helpful. There is a lot of advice about spawning on this forum. You should just use the search function to find it. Additionally I think at least one of the Forging 101/201s focused on spawn design. Here are some of the things that you should NOT do with spawn points that one or more of the community maps are guilty of: - Don't spawn people with too little room to orient themselves before heading on their way. A couple of the spawns on Aspirocity, which is actually one of the better maps in the playlist, has people spawning with a wall or ramp right in their faces, which is extremely confusing for said players when they spawn. - Don't spawn people with no clear first objective. That is, a good spawn point should generally point you towards a weapon or location that will help you quickly get back into the game. Most of the spawns in the community playlist are not like this, they just kind of plop you into the map. - Don't spawn people in a common line of fire. Reach's spawning engine is not smart enough to tell when a spawn point is on a sniper's screen. As a designer, it is your job to build spawn areas into the design that will typically be free from immediate danger. As several people have complained, a couple of the community maps have spawning areas that are completely within sight of common sniper roosts. Don't do this. Actually, don't make overpowered sniper roosts to start with, but that's another story
Ughh... more bad PR for ForgeHub. Bungie.net : Optimatch : Should there be a ForgeHub.com playlist? Tried to do a little bit of damage control, myself.
Nooooooo, hundreds of maps worse than those found in the community list do not need to be a separate playlist. The only difference is we force them to use pictures. ^Demotivational dedicated in loving memory to SS