Lack of better solution doesn't make it good, I still don't know what exactly the issue is your trying to solve, I was just commenting on damage drop off has "muddy" or "unpredictable" issues and depending on what your trying to solve might not be any better then bloom. I don't consider my self to be THE very best of halo players, But I do know how many shots I've fired (maybe not from my AR) but definitely know how many shots from a DMR and 99.99% of time I know when they hit. there head wobbles there shields flash. (and shields explode when they pop) It's already kinda muddy but adding drop off makes it impossible to calculate at drop off range. Circle strafing at the damage dropp off range limit it would be near impossible to accurately judge how much damage you have done, Numbers would be useless in this situation "Looks at range>His in full damage range>Shoot>He stepped backwards during that time" and vise versa I was presuming drop off was binary... If it was a scale it would be 10 times harder to accurately judge the range, Imagine a game of the pit when the average fight range was in middle of drop off range making kills from 4shot to 6shot(including 4.1shot,5.7shot,5.4shot,etc), Idk the goal I just know damage drop off has "unpredictable" damage/results in game. I know for a fact there is less "aim assist" or "magnetism" not sure on the right terminology mechanics but your reticule definitely follows the enemy less when out of range(not red reticule).
That information is in this thread both before and after the post you quoted. Actually, I think it's also in that post. The issue is that the DMR is basically a weaker sniper rifle that is unreasonably accurate and damaging over very long distances; only the lack of a super-zoom scope prevents it from being a complete god-weapon. The suggestion of damage dropoff is a proposed way of making it so you can still be out in the open sometimes in BTB and not get torn to pieces by someone a mile away with nothing but a default weapon in their hands. People didn't like this in Reach (it made Hemorrhage very stagnant) and don't like it in Halo 4 either (it's probably worse in 4 due to less bloom).
Not inherently a problem imho. If this is a problem then my solution would be "AR/BR/DMR" as 3 primary sandbox weapons (depending on how game works as spawn weapons or pickups) but DMR useless at CQC. (Doesn't even have to be those weapons just weapons that fit those ranges role. Long range but useless at CQC, CQC but useless at long range and a medium range that's average at CQC and long range) If you want a accurate DMR slayer staple halo gametype have a setting makes DMR perfect shots at all ranges. I presumed that was the issue but just avoided it because doubt anyone including myself wants to have this discussion. Just stuck to pointing out flaws in drop off. "Those people" played hemorrhage like it was a 4v4 small map game. Tell them people to get in a tank/revenant and tell me how "stagnant" the map feels now. Halo 4 is horrible since vehicles and weapon control are no longer a factor and can't be knocked out of scope makes it hugely stagnant.
A lot of players feel that it is, because it tends to make the maps stagnant unless they are divided up to a much larger extent. Fairly open maps with a big piece of high ground smack in the middle - e.g. Valhalla, Hemorrhage, Longbow - are hard to move around on if the enemy takes control of that area. You can end up stuck in/around your own base for pretty much the entire game, because if you're spotted trying to go around the outskirts of the map - and due to the map's openness, you usually will be spotted - you end up dead. You may disagree with this assessment, but that is the argument for why it's a bad thing. These maps had more freedom of movement in Halo 2 and 3 for various reasons. (I would argue it was about the same in CE, however. The pistol was deadly accurate; the only distinction really is that the scope was only 2x, not 3x like the DMR. That does make a difference, but not an enormous one.) This wouldn't help the problem at all. People would still use it in BTB so the problem we're talking about still exists exactly the same way. It just would make the DMR less useful on smaller maps. It's a sort of nerf but not one that matters in this discussion. The majority of players in any BTB match, even in Reach/Hemorrhage, are infantry; they're not in vehicles. Either because the vehicles have been taken or destroyed. It's not a good argument against stagnation for infantry to suggest they get in a vehicle instead. The whole point of BTB (IMO) is to mix the two; if people on foot feel they can't safely move more than ten feet from their own base, then you've kicked one of the legs out from under the entire game. And unfortunately the revenant and (even more so) the wraith only add to that to some extent. The smart play with the wraith was to help your team control the middle hill and then just plant yourself there; that only helps your teammates lay down the blanket of oppressive fire that keeps the enemy from moving. It used to be that keeping an entire team under lockdown was a full-team effort. You could do it, but it took everybody. The DMR makes it so that it really doesn't take more than a few good players committed to holding the middle; because the weapon is so good and their position is so superior, it just becomes a minutes-long siege scenario to break their stranglehold on the map.
Do the ghosts still have the "gas tank" you can use to blow them up quicker? That's the only way I can see this happening. Otherwise, it was probably already damaged, or someone shot it at the same time you did.
You can probably kill the driver from the side in one shot with a railgun...but you can't blow up the ghost. You were there, yes.... but obviously the ghost took damage elsewhere before you shot it.
This. How would you know it had taken zero damage when you fired at it? Seriously, load up a custom game. If you can't recreate it, then must be another explanation. That's kinda the way science works...
This is precisely why I hate the DMR since Halo: Reach. DMR should only be an ordnance or map weapon, not loadout. I hate the fact I am forced to use it in BTB because you are at a major disadvantage since everyone else uses it. And if you are playing against a skilled team...forget it. The whole match is a constant DMR strafing fest with no map movement. Take a look at how everyone has to play Ragnarock, neither team leaves their side of the map!
Basically. And if you try, you die. If you're lucky, you play with a really good team that will just crush the other team back into their base and force the stalemate to end. But even then, most good teams are content to control top mid and not move past that point - why bother when you can sit up there and win by a huge margin without really exposing yourself to real danger?
lol, you ain't lyin' bro. I been getting pissed at BTB lately. It's just ridiculous how you have to fly a banshee in this game now, I almost want to throw my controller. Even if I do good I don't like how I have to play.
You say Halo reach then list problems about halo 4... BR/DMR has always been the go to weapon that everyone has to use since halo 2, If there wasn't a DMR you would be "forced" to used the BR. I agree with Ragnarok been a horrible stagnant camp fest. But not because of DMR because how weak vehicles are, Specially on that CQC(for vehicles) map, How the maps designed, AA's+sprint, No weapon spawns+loadouts. There is literally no incentive to move. I remember discussing the merits of AR team slayer 4v4 saying something like "You don't get shot randomly from across map so you only have to worry about your immediate area" and one people's rebuttal was "Part of skill was knowing where people are to not get shoot" If it's not a bad thing for 4v4, Why is it a bad thing for 8v8 because I don't think it is. You don't walk in middle of lockout unless you have to, same goes for hemorrhage stick to outskirts or push with vehicles and preemptively stop yourself getting spawn camped. Assuming your using Halo 4's loadout system. It wouldn't be as effective. But any fixes to the DMR are for Halo 5/6/7 so the spawning system will hopefully be different in at least a few ways. If it was everyone spawns with BR's and long range useless CQC DMR's where pickups would fix the problem imo. (Less DMR's on map, DMR be less of a gun to use at all ranges so people be less likely to use it and even if they have bunch of DMR's counter them by getting close) True but you can have entire games of hemorrhage games only been in a vehicles never having to shoot a gun, and always see at least 1 or 2 vehicles on map at most times, and most vehicles respawn quicker then the power weapons on hemorrhage. And every warthog/wraith/Revenant is a easy way to break DMR line. and losing that in Ragnarok is a huge! disadvantage. Those situations when you get locked down in your base with 2 wraiths+2 revenants+4 warthogs+snipers happen every game. Its like 1-100 games it's a rare thing to happen and if it does happen usually means your team was completely under-skilled compared to enemy team so it just helps end the game sooner. (still not impossible to win, Its like when your team quits you have to 1v8, which can still be fun in its own way) But if it is happening a lot for the majority of the players then it's a matchmaking fail not map fail.
I'd rather be forced to use the BR than the DMR. For me, Halo 4 would be more fun without the DMR. The DMR isn't a problem on 4 vs 4 because At that range the DMR doesn't outrange the BR. The precision weapons are more balanced. Even the plasma pistol isn't an issue in 4 vs 4 maps because there is no vehicles.
Because 4v4 maps are usually more segmented than BTB maps to allow for more player movement. It really is as simple as that. Think of a map like Adrift - there are multiple paths to move from one base to the other that are almost entirely separate, or interconnect via only small doorways and corridors. You CAN get cross-mapped by someone while taking these routes, but usually just briefly and without actually killing you; if a team wants to completely prevent you from approaching their base, they HAVE to hold several different areas of the neutral part of the map (top mid and the two lift balconies is the easiest method, since those are the chokepoints through which all paths flow). By comparison, a team can control Ragnarok from top hill alone; literally nothing else is required. Same with Hemorrhage. If you have a few guys good with the DMR, and maybe one sniper or laser guy, you're golden. No need to move anywhere else and you can prevent the other team from doing much more than hanging around their own base. This design approach was OK when the default utility weapon wasn't that powerful over great distances. It's problematic with the DMR. So the suggestion on the table is to nerf the DMR somehow - or start breaking up BTB maps so that different areas of them are less open & more protected. Otherwise, you get stagnation and maps that are easy to control. It is far easier to get from one side of Lockout to the other than on Hemorrhage, and Lockout is a map with two chokepoints (top and bottom mid). If a team is controlling top - and they often are - you can at least go through the bottom with a lot less resistance. Guardian added the mancannons on its outer arms to make the same basic design less strangled by those chokepoints, and is probably a better illustration of how most Halo maps work; top mid is dangerous most of the time, but bottom mid and the side/mancannon routes are usually not. Hemorrhage doesn't have this. Probably the most protected area is the cave system, which still puts you out in the wide open for a very long time (and pretty close to the big hill, to boot).
The bolt shot is just op in skilled hands. For instance I can barely get any kills with it and have removed it from my loadouts. why penalize skill? but as for what would I nerf? The frequency of all 1 hit kill weapons. I'm looking at you binary rifle.
The problems with the boltshot are actually pretty easy to fix. 1, Charging makes you come out of camo(or at least makes it glow bright AF). 2, Make it like the spartan laser, all or nothing, no "fire at own will". 3, Spawn with less ammo with it(1 extra clip) 4, Make it's "1 hit kill" range shorter. It should be a pocket Mauler, not a pocket shotgun. Bonus; don't let someone charge it while they have Promethean vision active.
The sniper rifle is a skill weapon as well, would you be OK with putting it in loadouts..? Anyway the answer is not that I want to penalize skill, but that the weapon is essentially a more-skillful version of the shotgun, sword, etc. In the right hands it's almost as effective as those weapons and will often win against them. Therefore it should be considered a pseudo-power weapon, as far as I'm concerned, and shouldn't be in loadouts. If they just took it away as a default option, I wouldn't care if the weapon itself stayed exactly the same. Kind of funny since the boltshot is a 1sk (at least in the right hands) and is rarely used for anything else.
To fix Big Team Slayer they just need BR loadouts with secondary weapon being a pistol or assault rifle. Very easy to fix all it takes is two settings in base player traits. Besides adding a 1 or 2 plasma pistols on the map for each team for vehicle balance. Everyone doesnt need a DMR and a plasma pistol...it ruins BTB map movement/control as well as vehicle gameplay. If BTB was setup this way it would feel more like Halo 3 and not Halo: reach on steroids
Is it just me, or does it seem that the Forerunner weapons, in general, are OP. At least the standard loadout weapons, not the ordinance. The Suppressor has a higher RoF for example. And just a few minutes ago, I was running an experiment with the Light Rifle in a custom game and found that it takes five shots to the head to kill a fully shielded Spartan and eight shots to the body to have the same effect. Yet when using the scope, it takes four shots to the head to kill a Spartan and five shots to the body to get the same result. I don't know about you guys, but that doesn't seem right to me. I think they should lower the Suppressor's RoF, adjust the Light Rifle so that the shots do the same amount of damage, scoped or no-scope, remove the red beams that are projected when you use the Binary Rifle's scope, and nerf the charged blast on the Boltshot. Edited by merge: No. Absolutely not. I don't like the idea of forced loadouts, and I'm sure nobody else likes forced loadouts either. "If BTB was setup this way, it would feel more like Halo 3 and not Halo: Reach on steroids.". Again, no. I'm not sure how anyone else feels, but I feel that Halo 4 needs to stand on it's own and not "feel" like any of the games that came before it. It doesn't need to feel like Halo 3. And by the same token, it shouldn't feel like Reach either. Plasma grenades and Rockets do the same amount of damage that they did in Halo 3. It takes two of both to destroy a fully intact Warthog. I've been on the sidelines as far as Active Camo is concerned, but after having been killed by some deuche bag camping around the corner with a Bolt Shot more than once, I feel that it should be removed as an Armor Attachment, and relegated to a Personal Ordnance Drop, like the Speed Boost, Over Shield, and Damage Boost.
Then you'd be wrong. That doesn't mean they do the same amount of damage, just that both Halo 3 and Halo 4 nades do enough destroy a 'Hog in that measure. Halo 4 nades are weaker and have a smaller radius than Halo 3 nades. Halo 4 rockets are actually stronger than Halo 3, which were the weakest of the series.