Well, aside from netcode and internet connection related issues, from a strictly gameplay standpoint, the only other game I can really think of off the top of my head is Counter Strike but that's already been shot down. Maybe you should try branching out to other shooter genres? I've been really enjoying third person shooters more lately even if they have random luck factors as well (considering I hate luck based gameplay just as much as you seem to.) I tried the Gears 3 beta and really dug it except for that ****ing Sawn-Off which just killed the flow of combat completely. Beside that, it really did feel skill oriented and yeah, luck is kind of a factor in some cases but for the most part it felt consistent and enjoyable. If you want absolutely zero luck gameplay, go play Vanquish. Oh wait, that's singleplayer only aside from online leaderboards and over-the-top arcadey, third person shooter goo your pants awesomeness. Also the games ****ing hard and it's twenty bucks god dammit.
You probably have it, but Marathon. Seriously, I just Downloaded it recently, (i think i did it wrong) and anybody online that actually plays is, has had it for sometime and they are serious about it. Basically no luck, I'm horrible at it.
Gears isn't really my style. I've come across a few TPS games that I liked, but even then I saw very imbalanced gameplay which made me avoid playing online. As for Vanquish, I've considered it once, but I'm not really a fan of Single-player only games unless they're an RPG such as, for example, SW: KOTOR or The Elder Scrolls. Something that will last me a long time. Something that will be at least slightly different every playthrough. I wouldn't play Marathon only because it's outdated and I think the multiplayer sucks. I've considered almost any shooter you can think of, so it'll have to be a pretty much unheard of console game or an upcoming game, of which there are few that could have little to no luck factor.
Halo CE - Bloom Test - YouTube That is a video proving there is bloom in CE even though you cant see it visually on your cursor. I would wait for the TU because they will be running playlists without bloom and some with a 15% decrease in bloom. Most occurrences (IMO) of luck happen in DMR fights close range. If the decrease were to be put in place, spamming wouldn't be as big of a problem up close and it still wouldnt ruin cross map DMR fights on hemorrhage.
Poor shot registration is a connection issue, it's not going away unless you only play LAN games from now on. And wouldn't it take skill to be able to adjust to a randomizing factor like bloom? You specifically said the 343 should ignore their opinions. Honestly, this is like the whole Brony crap that's taken over huge chunks of the internet, a few people from 2 sides continuously call the other wrong and say their doing everything wrong. The only difference here is that the casuals just kind of play, while the MLGprozors who can't live and let live demand that the whole game should play how they think it should. You've not started a thread asking for an option to remove bloom, or the ability to remove it from the MLG playlist. You started a thread complaining about how you couldn't adapt to it and the whole game sucks because of it. Then you have the gall to say this to defend yourself. I've not misread your post, I can see clearly that you don't like bloom, and I agree there should be an option to remove it (with all the other options in Halo I don't see why not, and it just makes more sense considering how MLG guys seem to hate it as well, so a whole playlist would benefit) however I've also seen you completely disregard the feelings of people who disagree with you and just say we aren't getting what your trying to say when we voice our opinion (that you have your area and wants, and we have ours), like we'll suddenly agree with you if we just reread your post. EDIT: And I KNOW there was bloom in CE. I have it on my laptop and I played it just the other day, over long range the pistol rounds never go exactly in the center of the reticule.
Yes, but that bloom was implemented effectively, so it's not a problem. The more skilled player would still win a 1 on 1 battle. Spamming was never a problem in Halo 3. Everybody shot as fast as they could, but there was still a pretty good skill gap between 2 players. Bloom definitely needs to be removed in BTB, Invasion, MLG, Classic, and Team Objective IMO. But yes, I disagree with the close range battles thing. I think Bloom is a much bigger problem at long range. The less skilled player will win only because he is pacing, and not because he is better.
Wrong. I said that 343 should listen to the opinions of the competitive players more, especially since it has been proven that casuals don't have enough knowledge of the game to know what's right and what's wrong for a Halo title. The competitive players play more and are more dedicated, which means more knowledge. Casuals tend not to care how the game plays, nor do they play enough to gain immense amounts of knowledge, so we don't need to take many casual opinions into consideration, unless it's a topic untouched by the competitive players. Reach was a failure and 343 can't run the risk of listening to casuals like was done in Reach, especially since Halo: CEA will have been their first game. How the first game turns out could make or break this company. And the game should play how the MLG players want it. Like I said, they have more knowledge than casuals, and knowledge is a huge key to feedback. And why would I? Both of those are pretty much guaranteed to happen at this point. There doesn't need to be a debate on that topic. Yes, this is a complaint thread! You finally got it. And just an FYI: Complaint thread =/= Flame thread, so keep the flaming out of it. Congratulations. You've just invalidated your entire statement. That's what would happen if you actually read my post, but unfortunately some people in this community, yourself included, are just blind. Your point being? Bloom is fine as long as it's implemented effectively. This is not the case with Reach, and that is why I am complaining.
just gonnna quote you here. ... if they are doing that the "less skilled player" (in your terms) deserves to win the fight, why? Because in reality, that person is the one with the skill. If you don't have the skill or ability to pace your shots you have no place whining about bloom in the game. The only ones who have a remote right at that are people like your "less skilled player" who actually don't spam the trigger in hopes of a kill every encounter. I am just sick of all the crap people have to say about bloom in reach, when they clearly don't understand that isn't the primary reason they aren't doing well. Your definition of "luck" pretty much boils down to you not liking bloom and some other random stuff. Which, yes bloom is technically luck, but only if you spam the trigger 27 times when you see someone in front of you. I'm sorry you feel the way you do about reach and other games, but please understand that it isn't the system that is bad, it is probably you. TL;DR: Bloom in pretty much all games its implemented in is fine, stop whining.
That's most games, not all games. The games they are implemented in are nearly broken when they aren't done well. Reach is an example of a game with poorly implemented bloom. No I will not stop complaining. Until something is done, I will continue complaining about bloom. I think you've trolled enough. Time to leave?
Then you have a problem with self control, not the luck factor. In halo 3, spamming wasnt a problem because everyone was shooting at the same ROF with the same "random" spread. Pacing your shots actually has a point mid to long range in reach. If you try to do it close range then you'll get beat by a spammer because he got got more shots off and took his chances. Also, No bloom on a DMR would be terrible on BTB because it has no spread. IMO, Reach needs bloom it just needs to be decreased a little bit. Like you said, CE did it effectively, so why cant reach?
Dunno if this has been said yet, I don't wanna read through blah amount of pages, but it's connection, not luck. :/
This thing called a title update is gonna fix that. Yeah. In case, you know, you missed the news a few times.
Well, I was pretty pissed off the few matches that I had before making this thread. That could be it. And who said I was talking about DMRs? We need some Magnums in BTB. DMRs wouldn't be horrible without Bloom, though.
There's no defined amount of random chance past which you can guarantee the more skilled player always winning the encounter. If there is any form of random chance involved, there can always be the possibility of said chance screwing over the more skilled player in a situation, and this chance will manifest itself as such if enough scenarios are acted in out in this game (ie. the game is played enough, which CE most certainly was). CE was the best in the series in terms of skill defining the win and being unrestrained, and probably the best console FPS in this regard to date, but it was still not perfect, even in this sense. People who complain about inconsistency in Reach but say H3 was still good in this regard always puzzle me. I admit the consistency issues that bloom brings, but H3 was just inconsistent down to the ground. Especially since you talk about shots not registering in Reach, I'm genuinely very surprised that you consider H3 to be a good competitive game, it was by far the worst of the series in this sense and had a horrible netcode. The netcode for Reach is actually fantastic, best online experience Halo has ever had if you're talking purely in terms of the netcode. At least you can crossmap on Reach at BTB map distances, even if it is inconsistent, in H3 the BR was just a joke in true long range combat. To be clear: I'm not agreeing unconditionally with the overly anti-casual thrust of much of this thread, but I feel this point deserves addressing: The reason many people (including myself) sometimes feel hard done by is that this attitude, valid as it is, seems to be the de facto fan opinion for console developers to base their design process upon. What's particularly disheartening about the way that the idea of 'countering the skill gap' has affected Halo is that CE was the biggest and best example of PC style competitive FPS games on the console. It created the competitive console FPS community because it was the first game to make even many die hard competitive FPS fans (who up until then had due reason to pretty much disregard consoles entirely) sit up and see that an FPS could be made for console and still take a huge amount of skill. Why did this gem of a console FPS title have to be pushed further the way of pretty much every other console FPS? Why create an entirely new and incredibly influential niche in console gaming and then spend the next decade moving back towards the console FPS standard? Because CE was an accident in many ways, a beautiful accident. The fact is that mediating a game as a truly competitive experience to appeal to a market which can be summarised pretty nicely by your post is not only more lucrative (as casual gamers are inherently in the majority compared to competitive ones), but I get the distinct feeling that it's what Bungie wanted to do in the first place, and this has become more true with changes in staff and design mentality over the last 10 years. I'm not gonna call cash cow on the changes to competitive mechanics, I think Bungie have more integrity than that by a long way, but it still doesn't stop it getting competitive players down from time to time. I'm also not so stupid as to call Bungie for just merging in to the console FPS standard entirely either, as some are apt to do when saying loadouts just made it CoD etc. They were clearly aiming for their own defined angle on the console FPS and it does have a stronger competitive focus than anything big out there right now, by a long way. It's just the way that they effectively overshot by accident with CE, and in drawing back to where they got with H3 and Reach they made competitive players realise how much they missed the chance beauty of CE. So yeah, I'm not gonna hate and spit venom like some, but I do understand the disillusionment with the series, and can you really say you don't at all, even if you don't identify with it? Halo CE was pretty much all we had, and certainly the best of what we had, as a competitive console FPS community. If we were married to CE, you'd be the young, perky little secretary that our husband ran off with, leaving us to grow old and bitter, eventually turning in to a crazy cat lady. There were plenty of guys your own age, even plenty of single older guys, but you picked ours, and the real kick in the teeth is that he picked you. Forgive us a little grumpiness once in a while.
Agreed. Magnums in BTB is a horribly bad idea. AR/Magnum starts on Hemm is one of the most painful Halo experiences in the history of the franchise. Kill times and effective ranges are so bad that consistency can go eat a ****, I'll take my dice roll DMR on Hemm any day.
I'm only saying Magnums because on large, open maps like Hemorrhage, the entire game would become a "camp at your base and shoot everyone across the map" game. At the same time, the Magnum would make it become a "No vehicles/power weapons, no kills" game. I think a BR would be much better than either of these for BTB, but unfortunately Reach does not have a BR.
How, it's almost the same, just in reach the reticule responds to the bloom so you can see it. So your definition of a more skilled player seems to be: Whoever can get the reticule on the target faster (I agree) Who can keep it on target best (I agree) Who ever can jerk the trigger faster (I don't agree with) And an unskilled person is someone who can do the first 2, but instead of jamming the fire button waits for the bloom to stabilize before firing his 2nd, 3rd, 4th and possibly 5th shots to kill the enemy in as little time as possible with as few rounds as possible.
And very glad I am of that, too. Good riddance, burst weapons. You sucked when you replaced single shot weapons, and you still suck now that they've come back and replaced you in turn. CE Pistol>H2 BR>DMR>H3 BR, and that's ONLY because of how bloom is implemented. Post patch it will most certainly be CE Pistol>DMR>H2 BR>H3 BR. The fact is that Hemm sucks whichever way you look at it imo, from a competitive standpoint anyway. Doing stupid stuff with starting weapons to try and fix that is fixing a bad idea with another bad idea, just like the spawns on The Cage. I may be committing Halo blasphemy when I say that I wasn't that fond of the Gulch in CE, but it still worked a lot better simply because small hitboxes, tiny bullet magnetism and a highly responsive strafe did wonders for limiting ranged combat ease without using luck. But in Reach, it just sucks, and tbh I think Valhalla was a beautiful take on that principle which would have worked much better in Reach as well as H3.