Didn't bother to read any of the thread, but has nobody else pointed out that Far Cry's map editor is offline? An offline editor is only limited by console capabilities, so in terms of variety it can be endless. Reach can't have that level of whole-scale customization. Not during a game anyway. Referencing Far Cry as something that Halo's forge should aspire to is on the same level as referencing Maya or 3ds max..
I actually really like the simplicity they have given us to show real creativeness out of nothing. There are small things I hate, like the texture framerate and the shifting of walls, but those things can be fixed. I'd love a full on editor as well, but I feel like the creativeness would just disappear.
An all out creator would be too much, but I would love to see the ability to create terrain better. Like the "natural" section in forge 2.0 but deeper. Things like trees, something to create rivers or even rock trenches. The ability to raise and lower ground wherever you want could be beneficial as well but probably unable due to rendering issues in a large multiplayer setting.
I think most of the naysayers here have not even touched Far Cry 2's map editor. While is may be somewhat cumbersome it becomes second nature in no time. And to set some facts straight here: 1. Is uses a canvas setting. 2. The largest maps I have seen are are merely 5MB in size. Both of which dwarf even the largest of Halo levels. One is a full-sized replica of Helm's Deep from Lord of the Rings while the other is a full-sized recreation of Ebonheart from Morrowind. 3. This would allow remakes of classic Halo maps that everyone want without relying on the CHANCE that 343 remakes one. 4. Much more creativity would be allowed to come to fruition. As an example I put together a map that took place in a river than ran through a cave system. The Farcry editor is what Halo's Forge should strive to be. It is simple to grasp and understand with every facet of the world being able to be bent to your will. What's more, the inclusions of such a thing would not disallow people from using "Forge Lite"(read fore more akin to current Halo's). What do you mean by offline?
Want to perhaps co forge a map? Maybe show it off to your friends in forge? Perhaps you want to explore it with some of your friends, find little easter eggs the author put in? Nope. It was a single player editor. And as has been said: Reach maps don't go over 30kb. 5mb is a gargantuan amount when you have to account for the fact that there will be millions of player making millions of maps. The server just wouldn't be able to handle it. And if the server can't handle it, then the downloads take forever. Sure, the map may just be 5mb. But I've had times where those 5mb maps take 30 minutes to download, and the entire lobby ragequits. This kind of editor is not suited to a game like Halo, where custom games are so easy to set up, and so user friendly. People don't want to have to wait in a lobby forever while people download a map, it's stupid. And I'm pretty sure EVERYONE here who has spoken out against the editor has used it. I have experience with it myself. And I don't think it fits.
You people b!tch to much, if you look at the improvement from Halo 3 to Halo reach, its like a 300% improvement just because of the larger canvas, budget and ability to 'ghost merge' on cue. Reach gave forgers everything they were having a hard time with in H3