Debate Aetheism vs Theism

Any one heard of the Prison Mission Field? Any one WIlling to help me out? ...because IN all Truth Nitrous I would bet yes... only 80% of this prison group even Said there religion... and your saying 70 of 80 percent said they where Christian.... NOW ... half of that is Catholic and the other half Protestant... ... BOth of which is very very odd...

Now Since this is said to be a FB review it would seem logical that its a Credited Servey... but again Prisons could be a repeat... if one prisoner saying or doing it ... they are going to follow the norm to look what ever they want to look....

I mean you can read charts to say one thing..but if 20 percent of a servey didnt' take a servy ... it should have been included... SO more like 50% of the people in jail are ... Christians... and about Half of them... I'm betting are converted when they Go to prison... I'll find the facts to prove it..but as far as I know and are willing to bet... thats that...

So You have the facts but did you read deep into your topic?.....

Divorce rate... I dont' want to even get into... because its rapped around the belife that any one other than Chirstians can Divorce... but besides that...... there is a simple agruement... people sin... and it happens...

 

Christians shouldn't be in jail, period. If they follow the rules or laws of a higher authority they should be more inclined to stay out of trouble. Since us godless atheists are evil and immoral we should have a fantastic percentage of the prison population.

Oh and like, totally, also have you ever heard of prisoner reentry rates?

• Each year, more than 650,000 inmates are released from State and Federal prisons.
• According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, two out of three of these released inmates will be re-arrested within three years and more than half will be re-incarcerated.
• Released inmates face a myriad of challenges that often contribute to their return to criminal activity, re-arrest, and re-incarceration — including joblessness, substance abuse, mental illness, low level of education, lack of identification (e.g., driver’s license) and unstable housing.
• The cycle of recidivism carries severe consequences for victims of crime, community safety, the families of prisoners, and offenders themselves, as well as the cost to taxpayers for additional judicial and correctional expenses.

So um, they kinda like, go to jail as an atheist, become a Christian, get out, and go right back in the slammer. KEWL! I guess the higher moral authority really did help them out.

Source.

When I took criminal justice I told that the statistics were actually much greater but that's what I was told. He didn't have a source during the lecture. But, hey, he was a police officer. Who am I to argue, right?

Here is an extremely fun fact. The United States of America has the largest percentage of believers, in the developed world, and the most prisoners in the developed world. A correlation? You decide!

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No that is not the arguement. You didn't read very deeply into the arguement did you? Christians have every right to divorce if they are unhappy. It would just seem to appear, to me at least, that they should be staying together at a statistically significant rate rather than atheists. After all, god is watching over them, people are praying for them, and all should be well.

I guess god gives [some] Christians shittier lives so that eternal paradise will look a little better.

Here's my question. Why do Christians sin at a statistically significant rate higher than atheists if they are supposedly guided by a higher moral authority?

 

I know. I just like to stick in a few points because the other topics aren't as exciting as this one. Religion requires belief; that is what divides theists and atheists.

To answer your questions:
I hate how when you are part of a religion, people assume you confine yourself to that "bubble" of thought. I can't answer for every Christian out there, so I will answer from my point of view. I agree that there are things in the Bible that sound very far-fetched.

Now you might say, "So then why don't you just become atheist or something?" I wouldn't do this because there are points in the Catholic religion that I believe in. Example: God created the universe. Notice how I didn't say how many days or how long ago. I agree with the thought that God created the universe because there are so many other ways the universe could have begun, so I choose God as my answer (Example: God made the Big Bang.). But that doesn't mean that I have to agree that he made it in "x" days.

And why doesn't God answer prayers? Because (I think) God is cannot interfere with everyday life; that would defeat the purpose of us going through life to see if we are good enough for Heaven or whatever. Plus, God won't give you any emotional support (like making you feel better if you are sad) if you are not willing to do anything yourself.

All religions are fundamentally the same: They try to explain what happens when we die, who or what watches over us, and sometimes how everything started. The only differences between each religion are the specifics (who, what, when, etc.). These "big picture" ideas are what matter to me most, and they are what I believe in.

 

Agreeing with the catholic church that god made the earth does not make you a theist. That makes you agnostic. Especially if you disregard parts of the bible you don't like.

 

SO your point is ... as a Christian I'm allowed by my Free will as well My Choice to be evil... even though my Faith asks for me to be good... and which your saying.. Many of which fail...

So saying I am a case as well... just by the numbers counting against me says that I break the rules as well... Did you know my religious back ground admits I'm going to fail? Do you know... its not about being wonderful that gets me to heaven? .... Its honestly confusing... your dancing around these 5 or 4 topics saying God can't tell me what to do ... GOD CAN'T tell me what to do.... its really not the point of God... Its a mix of Love... Now before we hop up to a EVIL god or what ever... THE God I know... teaches me to love as he loves... simple as that...

Well I can't answer that ... I'm not one of those Christians... so I would think that the Christians ...that Keep to sinful ways... are needing help by a brother OR... they just where the Christian MASK to seem like a better person... I'm wondering which are you Nitrous... I mean you said ... you Practiced the Religion... And you seem to felt no Change... its One thing to have a opinion..but Its almost hate for Religious activities...

Deming something a Cult or what ever is your thoughts... But ... ... Those that are actually changed by the faith don't have the best things... they aren't JOB...where GOD Gives them the more than they had before...God gives them what they really need and they dont' complain... Imagine... how much better it would be if we were happier with less....

 

First off most people claim to be Christian because they don't worship the devil or have a turban on their head. Also we actually have a good system to put people away, unlike other countries. That's all I had to say, just a little something-something to think about.

 

What I am saying is because they don't worship the devil they say they're Christian. What I'm saying is whenever there was that "I hate american stereotypes" thread a while back you claimed to be Jew! Now you're running away from god with an angry fist raised high in the air! People say they worship god when they just celebrate Hanukkah. I have a question for you, have you ever read the NIV bible? The one with the new testament and no books written by "saints". It's powerful stuff man, read it sometime.

 

I know but you're my example. Ohhh... my bad you hadn't posted on that thread (I'm only human). Referring to line 3 of your previous post, so you do believe in god? Referring to line 2 I just mean-not following, against, turning your back on, etc. Also referring to line 1, Nitrous was saying U.S. has the most believers and the most jailed. It's because people say they're "technically" Jewish or "technically" Christian but don't actually follow or observe most things in the given religion.

 

I'm just trying to answer what people are saying based on what I believe in. Plus, I don't just believe that God created the universe; going along with that, the things I ignore in the Bible are specifics (dates and similar stuff). Let's not debate about what to call my beliefs, I'm not that interesting of a person. Instead, let's focus on the topic of atheism vs theism.

 

Oh boy.

I may be reading this incorrectly but I think you know what I'm getting at.

You have utterly missed the point. I understand that Christians maintain the ability to sin and repent. I was a Christian for a decade and a half for Christ's sake (or at least classified as one). My arguement is not against Christianity it is for atheism. Follow me on this. "The fool hath said in his heart there is no god" and then another (I'm paraphrasing poorly) "...his deeds are vile...and wicked" (Sorry about that, I couldn't find the verse for the life of me). So if atheists are fools and vile and wicked why are they statistically less likely to commit a crime or divorce?

I know, I know. You can point to free will and that god does not force us to do anything. But if the bible says you have a higher moral standard and are intelligent then why do the statistics not show it? Christians should have god on their side. Atheists should be getting struck by lightning bolts and getting into car wrecks left and right. Christians should win the lottery and maintain some of the highest standards of living. But they don't and never will (at a statistically significant rate).

"Silly, silly nitrous. You just don't understand that god doesn't help those who believe in him or hurt those who don't."

Not according to the old testament. God is infallible so he couldn't have changed his mind. Nations won and lost wars because of god's assistance. 300 years ago people thought that when people died prematurely by some natural cause that god was killing a sinner. Why has it changed today?

I felt tremendous change as a child. How dare you misrepresent my upbringing.

You do realize we're in a debate. And let's face it, I can't win a debate unless I, how you say, debate.

Atheism has shown to have a statistical significance to a positive correlation (which appears to be causation) with poverty level, crime levels, and divorce rates. So in a debate centered around atheism vs. theism it only seems appropriate to bring up these statistics. Sorry for being so intolerant, bigoted, and hateful. I just find it odd that a religion that preaches fire and brimstone for all those who disagree and eternal bliss for all those who do agree could ever possibly play the hate card.

Let's just agree to disagree and agree that this image sums it up quite nicely.

Link

I was lost in this last paragraph. Um, I'm not made happier by having more stuff (except GOW2). Job's family was killed...and at the end he gets a new family and everything is well again...for Job...his family is still dead...

I'm like technically an atheist and I'm like technically not in jail and I'm like technically more moral than your god.

On a more serious note. Why do Christians always say, when they don't agree with someone, "They're not a true Christian." When I disagree with an atheist (or a christian for that matter) I have a different point of view. I don't disown them from my line of thinking entirely.

What about clergy raping 7 year old boys? What about Pope Pius the 12th (now a saint I believe) not admitting to the holocaust's existence? What about the Roman Catholic church supporting ****'s? WTF man?! They are the extreme higher ups, they should know better. Shouldn't they?

 

Alright, I am going to type in Simple normal English Sentence for today.

First, I have not missed the point of your posts.

Second, you haven't noticed my points in that Sin doesn't matter, it is the condition of the heart to improve.

Good is considered Preserved and criminally changed to be a very wicked thing.

Now, half of it is due to Christians making it a rule not to commit,the other is just by our will to commit it.

So, Lets break down our posts to make a little bit more sense; shall we?

Now your data is saying one simple thing. The relation of Religon and Crime.

This is a fail due to simple contexts, because the to test subject matters are off.

Your trying to connect the Dots of Moral standing to a set of rule breakers.

Now, I would agree from the data shown that so ever many criminals are from a set of moral standing, but that they don't follow.

So, what again its free will we are arguing?

All it proves is that people that feel and think they are apart of a cause that they are not truly apart of.

Now you need to understand, bringing up your name Nitrous was to make a point. You participated in Christian activities as far as you have mentioned. As far as you had said before the present was that you went to a retreat of some sort and had a High spiritual feeling for a while. This being temporary it soon died down and you lost your faith, or as I asked it earlier did you ever have it.

And in that statement leaves two points of view in you. You are religious under a context of some reason your not, OR that you where never religious in the first place.

Its very similar from the man stuck in a cave.

Now, I get to tell a story!

Lets see if I tell it correctly.

Four men are stuck in a cave. All of which are stuck facing a wall heads tied down and fixed on a wall. They can't walk move or any thing The only think they can see are shadows on the wall. Of what they think are guards. One of these few men some how break free from these here say set Chains. He escapes walks to the source of light and Finds out what the true identified shadows are. He quickly runs back the the other imprisoned Inmates and They can't believe him...

So Nitrous Your the man that has seen a Real thing the shadows are, OR you never really saw anything.

 

Ok, so the man goes off, sees the truth, comes back to relay that truth but no one believes him... And you're prescribing me the role of that man. I figured it would have been the other way around unless you're arguing for atheism. I really don't know what to say to it.

To relate that to this debate, I have seen what religion actually is and I'm describing it to the shackled religious who cling to their beliefs.

I think you messed up your story But if you didn't I'm very thankful for the review.

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My religious background is not just a retreat and, bam, I'm an atheist. I became an atheist much later.

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I'm not trying to say that Christians are incapable of breaking rules, though, I do believe that a deity would show some favoritism to his chosen people.

Atheists make up 11% of the population. They also make up of .2% of the prison population. Christians make up 75% of the population and 75% of the prison population.

If morality really does come from a god, namely yours, shouldn't the good book prevent this 75% from getting in trouble? And since atheists don't have a book to gauge their morality to shouldn't they inhabit a larger percentage?

This does not mean that god is helping Christians keep out of trouble. That's not what I'm saying and I think that's what you think I think...I think.

Christians should fear hell for wrong-doings. Breaking the law is bad, especially if it's a sin. They should fear doing this because of eternal damnation. Atheists, on the other hand, make their own morality, and, knowing their life is finite, they should be doing whatever they want. "If it feels good do it." But we find alarmingly that the inverse is true. Christians, it seems, are the transgressors.

Whats your point? What are you getting at?

I want you to admit to me that the bible is wrong when states the following, and maybe, just maybe, admit that just because I don't believe in god I'm not immoral.

 

Nitrous, I have to ask, are you saying that since christians have the fear of going to hell, then they will be tempted to do good things and since theists don't care about hell they will do whatever they want and ironically there are more christians in jail than theists even though it should be the other way around? cause I would agree with that. Just trying to understand some stuff.

 

You can't pin it all on one reason, but I do think that is the main one.

Would you believe in a god that had no evidence whatsoever and after you die whether you believed or not you go to heaven? It would seem a tad unnecessary to believe in him. Religion primarily operates on a system of rewards and punishment, which is cause for concern in my opinion.

 

Umm..you said in your opening post that you did attend for a short while so you could have a Bar Mitzvah. C'mon now don't lie!

 

I agree, If everyone goes to heaven, why believe in him if your going to go to heaven anyway. Thats also one of my lines that i tell people, prove to me he exists, and they all use opinion instead of evidence to try to sway me.

I think thats what you said at least. I'm really not that smart but I like debating.