Ah, there's the response. Wanted to add, I think even Multi's being a ****. But it doesn't hide everyone else's **** in here.
@S0UL FLAME First of all, I don't think anyone is jealous of Multi. He used the designs he spent months on to apply to studios and got a job. Any one who wanted to go into game design could do this if they put the work into a professional portfolio. Hearing that Oblivion is what caught their eye only makes me proud because I know how hard he worked on that map, and how disappointed he was when it almost didn't get finished. I've only made comments on its existence within Halo 5, but the only people who cares how it plays within Halo 5 are the people in the Forge community. I have a hard time imagining the guys at Treyarch looking at the map and wondering whether it plays like a donut or not. This is why I have missed no beat to remind everyone how awful Halo 5 is, and I will continue to do it until I am ignored by the whole forum or banned. This game blows, and look no further than the fact that the developers don't even care about the Forge community and we're still arguing over the way maps should be playing. If you're doing this for a hobby, then that's great. If you're doing it to eventually move into the industry, then see the aforementioned point - other studios don't care. And if you're the weirdo still making maps because you want them to be played in matchmaking, then need I remind you that the Halo community likes playing the kind of maps that shipped with Halo 5, and they wouldn't care for 90% of the content that came out of the Halo community. Everything about this is a joke.
Jesus man lmao show your character more. How many times do I have to tell you to play me on Oblivion and try to sit in the chapel the entire time and we'll see what happens. I can live stream it for everyone here to watch, you've got nothing to lose right. I'm going to use your own reasoning on Andesian and say it very well could've been ****, we'd never know if you didn't freak out and wipe your hard drive after your mental break down. There's no way to tell without playing it Why do you assume I won't make a 4v4 map because I don't know how? That was PRIMARILY what I've been doing for 10 years, this game I realized 4s is a team shot AR fest so I stuck with 2s where I could art my maps better. I have big team maps in H2A, and plenty in H3. And yeah, it's easy to test 2s. I have my close forge friends phone numbed it's easy to get them online. And yeah I think they're some of the better designers so I like they're feedback more. There's nothing wrong with any of those things. Yeah no I don't like people who have mental breakdowns on forums and attack my character out of literally nowhere. You, purely. I didn't have an issue with either of you last we talked so it's safe to assume I'm not the one talking about people constantly. And this matters why? It's still the most ideal way to play the game. I already conceded the lighting and I have no issue making it brighter. I don't personally have issue seeing, and the people I regularly play with tell me it's bright enough so I was inclined to agree. I don't really care either way and I've never been stubborn about lighting. When purple complained about Legion I changed every black piece to Gray 60 even though it looked retarded. Salty isn't commenting on lighting. He ORIGINALLY said the map plays like a donut and said the best way to win is to run a circuit like you can see in the above screenshots and the "favorite map" thread. NOW I'm told that sitting in chapel is best. Or sitting up top is best, I don't even know anymore. Point being, they're anxious to find a flaw. Which I have no problem with, I welcome it even I love to bullet proof everything I make. I think you can read the thread and see that they're not trying to help. It's really about trying to devalue the map; which is fine because if there's a problem I want to see it. But what they're pointing out isn't it. Especially because so much of this is driven by motives which I'm sure most of the people in this thread aren't even aware of. Saltys comment "I wouldn't want to put Oblivion in matchmaking because I wouldn't morally blah blah" was essentially my comment about Port 66 when he asked why I wasn't pushing it for matchmaking. Only we took a vote and 8/11 people agreed with me in that group deciding. Since then he's been on a mission, so this isn't really about me taking feedback poorly. I design for the base game, and I'm good at it. You pretend we're playing battlefield and make 2 foot bathroom stalls but that's okay. And you have the gall to tell anyone their maps play like anything. At the end of the day my maps don't fall apart when someone wants to win, they speed up. Yours revolve around crouching in an endless maze. That's the difference here.[/QUOTE] Because camping in the nadeable as hell top labyrinth on Oblivion is really gonna help a team win or even slow the game down lol. And my map Andesian that got **** on by the lighting update, you know, that map was total trash even tho it was one of demps lobbys most loved maps. A map you yourself actually helped quite a bit on, yea, that was **** too. Wait.... Your the one who won't even make a 4v4 in this game cuz your so afraid of feedback you don't want your ego hurt so you make 2v2 you can play with small circles of friends that will give you the feedback you want. Gotcha[/QUOTE]
Also, I already explained this in the other thread, but I'll elaborate. Everybody who takes Forge seriously does it because they want to make something impressive in Forge. If you were taking level design or gameplay seriously, you'd do it in another engine for a better game with developers who actually cared about community content. But half of the fun of Forge is making something nobody else has made in Forge. Loading Zone is piss easy to make in a real dev kit, but in Forge? That's an accomplishment, and regardless of what people think of the layout, it doesn't take away from that. Forge has always been a competition of creativity and ingenuity, and I think that's great because that inspires others and keeps the community alive. But somewhere along the way, Forgers developed an attitude after years of using a toy editor that makes them all snobs. I've heard some comments that ranged from nit picks to petty pseudo-flaws and it just comes across as pretentious to me. Like, we are so quick to pick apart a design that we'll look for the most mundane, inconsequential issues with it. It's honestly baffling how needlessly critical this community is, especially because the developers are just watching from the sidelines and laughing at us. Obviously as a Forger I'm pissed at that fact, but I can't even blame them.
@S0UL FLAME Kinda lame to call people out, then attempt to discourage a response. I'm assuming you're saying that I'm the liar, but I don't know what I lied about. @MultiLockOn The first time I brought up the lighting, it was meant to be feedback. I felt Oblivion was suffering from depth perception issues, so I brought it to your attention. @SaltyKoala Why is it a bad thing to be critical? It's how we learn from each other, and ourselves. I, personally, couldn't give less of a **** what 343 thinks of the forge community. Look at their maps. We all have different reasons that we create maps.
Yeah it was more of the way you said it that irked me. No biggie, I'm not super sensitive about the lighting like I said because it doesn't even look like what it did when I posted it. And soul is referring to purely.
Just remember I fixed it for you. Just because I'm bitching about my own maps doesn't mean you aren't still my *****.
343 gives us a shitty game 343 gives us a pretty good Forge Forgers disagree about each other's opinions on how to make maps for **** game 343 decides to ignore Forgers The future of Halo is bright. --- Double Post Merged, Apr 12, 2017 --- It's hard to hide your **** when it's as big as your leg. --- Double Post Merged, Apr 12, 2017 --- Extinction was better
Your absolutely right about me being upset about the way Port 66 was judged. Once I release my champ level gameplay breakdown of the map and show that and contrast that to the **** show that you and those people called a playtest the res of the community will understand why I got so triggered by it. My feedback on Oblivion is partly inspired by that feedback. I realized I haven't been nearly critical enough about feedback on maps considered to play well. So I took it upon myself to be more critical of the maps I called good, Oblivion being one of them. Lo and behold, the map wasn't as flawless as I though and some extremely nasty issues came up with it in my experiences with it. I absolutely accept your challenge to play the map, let's set a date. May 1st. I'm a 29 in this game and will need some time to get used to the dog **** aiming in H5. If anything, my poor aiming skill has actually made me better at exploting maps and I'm pretty sure In the customs youve played with me there's been games where I've done better then you. I distinctly remember some, will have to do up some player history tomorrow.
I'm sure you have done better than me some games of Halo 5 I've never thought otherwise. I'm not consistent at all at playing. Why so far in the future you and purely are online together all day long, we could do it tonight right now? Edit: And I never claimed that the playtest we had was the best, I admit it was shitty but that's besides the point. Everyone agreed there was an ideal way to play the map. BUT EVEN BEYOND THAT there's way more problems with Port I discussed with you beyond strongholds setups as to why I wouldn't push it.
I don't worship the map, I simply get annoyed when people try to pick it apart. I already said I hate the chapel, which is a big section of the map. I only hate it because it's just one big flat room. It could be way more interesting. With that being said, I still think it's the best forge map in the game. I don't blindly back up friends. I find it funny how often my name gets dragged through the mud when people are arguing with Multi. If you actually knew us, you would realize we are some of the most different people imaginable. But since we agree on level design philosophy almost universally, people assume I don't have my own opinions. I'm not a carbon copy of the guy, we just agree on how to design. @Zombievillan You were a guy I always looked up to in H3. I remember being jealous every time you posted a map. You and a ton of other people drove me to be a better forger. Obviously, we've never talked that much, but I'd like if we talked more. Anyway, nobody I've met in the forge community ever actually explained why designs are good or bad. And if they tried, it usually was just word vomit. People were especially good at that in H2A lol. But the point is that Multi has always been very good at explaining things. He usually comes off bad in text, but is always respectful in voice chat and in person. When I was at his house one night, we debated about CE, and it lasted like 3 hours lmao by the end I was so pissed off I didn't wanna talk, so I just went to bed. But the entire time he was straight faced, calm, cool, and collected. All he did was explain things, and like 80% through the debate, I remember actually thinking, "****, that actually makes sense..." lol I was totally wrong, but I didn't wanna admit it, so I would try to derail parts of his argument instead. That is what I feel the people attacking Multi and Oblivion are doing. I don't think it's about the map anymore. It's more about not being wrong on both sides. The only difference is that the map speaks for itself. I played that map for months while scripting was broken, so the power weapons were literally never even there, and I was so involved in the encounters and positioning myself accordingly, I actually didn't notice there were no power weapons at all. THAT to me is why the map is so strong. It doesn't rely on outside factors, it is about the pure design. I've always played against Multi on every game too, I swear. Even yesterday we loaded up the map and our first real encounter was clip worthy. The best strategy is to constantly be moving around and forcing your opponent to go where you want them to. Now let's get back on topic before Goat reminds us Halo sucks, and Dunco reminds us he made Cesspool.
In response to the green edit. The bathrooms on departure are in the back of the map and have only 2 ways out and 3 ways in. None of these are clamber options that deny one player the ability to shoot. Oblvions top labyrinth has 3 ways in and out and the only ways in require a clamber or thrust, both of which stop the agressing player from shooting. My bathrooms are in the back of the map, in the low ground and allow extremely limited sightlines from there exits. Oblivions top laybrinth is in the MIDDLE of the map in the HIGH GROUND and allow for sightlines over the majority of the map at it's 3 exits. My bathrooms allow minimal spawn control, while Oblivions top labyrinth lets you dictate spawning on the ENTIRE map do to its location. My bathrooms allow access and control to ONE short range power weapons, while top labyrinth control on Oblvions allows players to control Incin, Damage Boost, and Splinter Nades and BInary My bathrooms feed into two somewhat weak areas of the map, while top labyrinth on Oblvion feeds into the highest point and most connection heavy part of the map. Great comparison Multi.
Halo su--- Anyway I like everything about Oblivion, especially the fact that the Chapel is just one straight hallway. Every other part of the map is complicated, so I like that it's the one flat space for unadultered combat. I just don't think it belongs in Halo 5, which is why I had a problem with the word "objectively". Granted I don't like much of anything in Halo 5, but I feel like this game does a disservice to that map especially.
It doesn't matter if you can clamber or not if two grenades kill anyone in there. And there's plenty of nades on the map. Yeah, it's a powerful position with good junction control. There's a reason it's so tight up there. And the top pillars are just asking to get shot off of. But like I said let's play tonight and you try your best to stay up there.
Apples taste better than Oranges. Ever eat a chilled apple? ****'s amazing. A juicy ass orange is still an orange. They're both bad for your teeth though. Apples are hard to chew and Oranges ruin your enamel.
I'm drinking so no and had a 12 hour day with kids which completely wore me out. The nature of rocks and bouncing nades make it easier then ud imagine to avoid nades. Like I said, May 1st. Take it or Leave it. @Given To Fly You probably don't know the history between me and soul but he absolutely has been a jackass and **** to me. It's on stream archive if you would like a link.
I have no idea why I'm jumping in here again, lol, but running tests where everyone knows that one of the teams is going to try holding one specific area isn't really going to be a fair representation. If anything, both teams should try to gain control of, and hold that area. It's probably more likely that Salty will change his mind if he's able to break a setup when you're trying to hold it. But yeah, you're just asking for a one sided affair if you all go into the game knowing what one of the teams strategy is going to be, and exactly where they're going to be located, but the other team has free reign to do whatever they please.