But Warlock is one of the fastest 2v2 maps to ever be in a Doubles playlist. Sanctuary is slower though, for sure. For clarity, what does that preference have to do with symmetrical vs asymmetrical? You can achieve any pace or style of play regardless of symmetry. I might be misreading the connection, sorry.
Nah, my bad. I misread somewhere in there, but the point still stands that there should be representation for both symm and slower paced maps in the MM list. Only having fast paced asymm maps is just... for lack of a better word, shitty. If that is what you and others like, fine; but that isolates ALL of the people who don't. The game is barren as it is, the last thing we should be doing is closing off an entire group of players just because their preference doesn't match up with the only type of map that is in the playlist.
Oh look, another contest winner announcement thread where people complain about the winner's maps and bring up their own. What a sight to behold.
Im sure this is intended for me. We know our own content the best. And we know how people to react to our own content best. Therefore, it was the best example I could provide in the short term. I'm not complaining its not included, just adding to the point that "variety is the spice of life" and you can see that this was not considered in the results. Proof is in the pudding. BUT, to side with the judges, they made this contest a thing before the whole 2v2 MM playlist sort of..took it over. So its their contest, and they can pick who they want. All 5 entries are super good! But for MM, there is no variety, which is the theme of debate here , and frankly, not the judges fault for their own contest. Its up to 343 to decide.
I just don't understand why people expect to see symmetrical maps and then fail to produce said symmetric maps. Do you like slow games that don't break half of the score limit? Do you like running from one side of the map to the other just to find people? Do you like being lost in a sea of grey? Because there were plenty of those. I don't need to be an amazing level designer to notice that. How am I condescending if I expect better quality maps to go into Matchmaking? Everybody should expect better. This is the **** you're going to be playing on for hours. If it frustrates you, you'll have nobody to blame but yourselves.
In regards to the 2v2 playlist I really hope there's atleast ONE symmetrical map. As 'creative' as asymmetrical maps are they don't compare to symmetrical maps in a balanced standpoint.
Diversity was never a consideration for me. Out of fairness to the people that submitted maps, I felt it was my duty to judge each map on its own, rather than trying to choose the best 'pool' of maps. While tournament play was given some thought, it was on how each map would play individually rather than how each map would play compared to the other maps used in the tournament (because until you actually get to the end of the process, you don't know what those other maps will be). Overall, my top priority was always to advance the maps that I felt were best, not the maps that I thought would produce the best overall tournament experience. If there hadn't been money on the line in the Map Contest portion, and had we been prioritizing the tournament experience, my rankings may have been different. I doubt it, but it's possible. To have symmetrical maps in the tournament would have been nice from a diversity standpoint. I completely agree on that. However, I personally felt that all of the symmetrical maps we tested were sub-standard in one area or another, and to be fit for tournament play or for a place in the top 5 would have required some updates to the maps. Despite what anyone may think, I most definitely don't have a bias against symmetrical maps. Some of my favorite Halo maps are symmetrical. There were a decent amount of symmetrical maps that made it to the top 30. It just turned out that there weren't any that stood out once they got to that point.
I can't produce them if they aren't there. That's my point. I tried to make one & failed, I'm ok with that. My argument stems from my assumption that there would be good solid symmetrical maps submitted. There usually is and I'm not trying to state this as a symmetrical vs asymmetrical. Open arena style maps too. I just thought & hoped there would be a more diverse selection for you guys to pick though.
Because you're pretty much saying your personal preference of play style is the objective standard of quality. I'll tell you a little secret, it isn't. If there aren't good symmetrical maps, as you attest, why don't you prove it then? Post what you think were the best symmetrical maps submitted, then explain why they're "not good". The burden of proof is more on you than it is on us, as we aren't the judges. We didn't keep track of every map submitted. We didn't look at every map submitted. And frankly, our opinions aren't as important as yours. Get it?
And it's not like none of the maps have potential. Most, if not all of them can be excellent maps with tweaks ranging from weapon changes and performance updates to visual overhauls and, if necessary, geometric redesigns. We should always be encouraging people to improve their maps and their abilities to grow the community and foster quality content. It's why I am against the review system because a review suggest that maps cannot change or be revisited.
I 100% agree with there needing to be a wider spectrum of pace and styles of play, but I think there will be a good degree of that once the playlist launches. I hate bringing it up and rarely ever do, but I think I'm probably the highest skilled player in the Forge community and having played most of the maps, I feel like a lot of the maps in the matchmaking pool are mistakenly labeled as "fast" maps. I've had plenty of games go the time limit on some of these maps and hopefully if the playlist is ranked, people will get sweaty and find that out over time. For example, I'm very aware that even my own map is very very hectic and fast in the first five or so games, but after a while it become a very meticulous map to play.
Its just confusing, we were given to assume that they were being selected specifically for the tournament, meaning that some sort of diversity and variation would play a part in the selections, but now it just seems like (from the results) that its just a "best 2v2 map contest". Not that any of that would have changed the entries at all, or even some of the winners. People were already salty about the contest, this is just another reason why. I sure hope so, for the playlists sake.
I don't want to hear how bad mine is lol. Ok. I get that now. At 1st it was just hard for me to believe there weren't any maps that were different than these that were good enough. I still don't think we should have 5-10 maps in a tournament or playlist that are all the same style.
A contests sole purpose is to find the best map. The tournament is just a spin off from that, the amount of maps used will be decided from how I structure the tournament/number of entries. The judges gave 343 their top 10. This is not set in stone, 343 always have the final say and I'm sure they will change things.