The fact that bad maps win contests is very good news for me. And a few others probably. You know who you are.
So you want to outsource playtest lobbies to a small group of people instead of gather a wide variety of feedback to polish and submit a "finished" design? That sounds very counterproductive. ForgeHub contests traditionally last 6 weeks. I'm no one to talk to about designing and building a map in a timely manner, but assuming you spend 1 week on design and 1 week on polish, that leaves you 4 weeks of iteration and testing on a single map. Within that timeframe, you should be able to get several tests and feedback - way more than you would between a small pool of volunteer judges. A community wide effort to design, iterate and publish maps could be interesting to explore for a community driven playlist like a classic or HCS list, but it's not something I think belongs in a contest setting.
Why are you so aggressive? This is a discussion thread not 1v1 match. My opinions should not matter to you this much. What does it matter if I say this contest is a bad idea? That won't stop the contest from happening, or stop people from participating. Every time I speak up against Forge contests you are the first person to get in my face and try to convince everyone that I am either insane or stupid. You never ask me a single question or try to understand me in any way. Even to the point where you do everything you possibly can to try to shut down any hope of reasonable discussion. I mean, look at what you just said. That's just rude. I wasn't even talking to you. Why would you say that unless it was meant to hurt my feelings? What part of the critical thinking process is that? The part where you say mean things in order to get me to shut up or go away? My opinions are NOT a challenge to you or anyone else. They are JUST opinions. You can feel free to ignore them.
im curious to know why you dislike forge contests I like them because they stimulate community and site activity and get everyone focusing on one playercount, which drives innovation and competition. I think competition is good because it spurs creativity, provided it is in good spirit. The only thing I don't like about them is that they can turn sour due to the way the judging is handled, which is why I would like a consistent, transparent, and as objective as possible judging system to make the process as painless as possible. I'd love to win ForgeBucks someday, but the draw for me is that all of my friends are online making and playing the same kind of maps. I think that's great for Forge.
When submitting a map, are we allowed to include an embedded video? And also, are we able to release it on Forgehub in it's own release thread?
Yes, much like screenshots, videos are always helpful for initially viewing a map. As for your second question, yes you would need to publish your map on ForgeHub for your submission.
The problem, as I see it, is that picking "The Best" maps cannot be objective, especially when the parameters are so ill-defined. Everyone that enters a map thinks it's a winner, and so do their friends, and every other map sucks. If the judges pick some other map, there must be some mistake, or someone cheated. Worst thing is not even being considered. Having your submission rejected means you suck. Being told you suck after working hard on something you thought didn't suck does not necessarily endear one to the community, nor does it encourage further endeavor. Some believe the game is dead. This current attempt to spur interest has been done to death and it only benefits the winners and does nothing for Forge or Halo. The discussion about an alternative solution to a contest quickly devolved into a discussion over whether Multilockon should judge a contest, and here we are. When this contest is over five people will have $200 and nothing else will have changed. In my opinion, Forgehub shouldn't be deciding who's map is the best. Forgehub would be much more useful highlighting maps that have merit and challenging the community to learn and push Forge's limits. If someone makes a good map you should just say so instead of comparing it to every other map.
Okay so the argument of subjectivity. This conversation is getting really old. There are good maps, and bad maps. Not everything is subjective.
Which is why the parameters need to be defined. I've typed up a million rubrics and nobody wants to entertain a discussion on it because "level design is all subjective. What's to say morality isn't subjective? Who decided that it was wrong to do "bad things" to other people, and who decided that they were "bad"? It was society, because there are plenty of people who don't believe in religion that still understand there is a "right" and a "wrong". When the line becomes less black and white, articulate arguments are supposed to be made to support opposing views. The subjectivity argument stalls progress in an attempt to make everyone feel like they're a winner. That's not how the world works. There are good maps and there are bad maps and it's about time people start agreeing on what those characteristics are, otherwise there is no point in ever making anything because there will be an endless amount of content to sift through and it will all be on the same level. The job of the judges is not to make people feel good. The job of the judges is to look at a pool of maps, eliminate maps that have gameplay problems, performance issues, and art direction below par, and then stress test the remaining contestants to see which ones perform the best for the intended audience. What determines that baseline shifts all the time, and there will be disagreements on which characteristics of maps are better than others, but it has to be there. Are you serious? There will be at least a dozen new 1v1 maps for the community to play on and the collective consciousness of Forge will have accelerated. That's the whole point of contests. Do you really think those 1v1 maps are going to magically show up without the announcement of a contest or a 1v1 playlist? The lack of 1v1 maps is literally the reason this contest is being made! And therein lies your major contradiction. You cannot pick a "good map" if you do not nkow what makes a map good, and if you know what makes a map good, then you can pick the best maps from a pool of maps based on which map is "gooder". There are always going to be disagreements over the results, which is why the judges need to have level heads and look at the maps as critically and impartially as possible. I think very few people who understand art and level design profoundly are able to do such a thing, but it's absolutely possible so long as there is consistency and transparency. Again, the whole point of contests is to do exactly what you just suggested - challenge the community to learn and push Forge's limits. How do you think you're going to get people to do that, by asking them to? No, you hold a $1000 contest and a tournament afterwards. There are literally people who will not Forge until a contest is announced. The Forge community really needs to grow up. Just because there is no quantifiable level design masters degree doesn't mean there cannot be well understood theories and philosophies on level design. You want to spur a debate on which philosophy is better, then have at it. Those kinds of discussions are exhilarating provided that both sides are articulating their arguments. But the side preaching "subjectivity" rarely if ever manages even that, instead bending over backwards to justify themselves. Perhaps they are just wrong?