Matty

This often cited idea of thought crime is absurd. There is no such judgment for what you think or feel. In fact, many denominations don't even dwell on specific transgressions the way you might see it in a catholic church.
If anything, this flawed notion stems from the concept of original sin. The idea is that we are sinful creatures by default because of our actions in Eden, but it's really on a macro scale, not necessarily a personal one. Original sin is understandably a difficult subject to wrap your head around, but talk of surrender or guilt in the fashion you hear in those videos is largely nonsense.
In fact, the notion of heaven being an eternal church service is equally ridiculous. It's unfortunate that our views of heaven and hell have been so warped by the various depictions throughout time.

You know, it's not actually fair to assume that the negatives that occur in the name of religion would not have occurred otherwise. Just as christians and atheists are capable of the same good, so too are they both capable of the same bad. If you look at major events and territorial disputes in the past that have happened under the guise of religion, you may be surprised to find that they are happening for far more practical reasons. Specifically, you can look at these events in the context of geography and realize how much sense things make. I can give you some examples some time, if you like; it's pretty fascinating stuff.
As an aside, you have no idea what my level even is, so your misplaced condescension doesn't help your case. Keep that in mind for your future debates.

Again, these videos are all well and good, but they hardly count as a response to what I've said. Have you given up on an earnest discussion, then?

I was referring to the evolution expert whose point was taken as a "comment" rather than discussed. I just found that disappointing, that's all. It's irrelevant, really.
So far, your only points of contention have been about morality and, to a lesser extent, reason's place in religion. You did not elaborate about your third point when asked, and you haven't responded to the other two either. Most of my questions have gone unanswered as well. Don't mistake my probing for some kind of full-fledged argument against you.

I'm only trying to get to the bottom of your belief in order to address any flaws or fill any knowledge gaps that you may have built other opinions on top of. I've dismissed nothing, I'm offering you a different perspective to consider as well as background information when needed. You don't appear to be spending much thought on my questions, though. I'm well aware that your mind is made up, but you don't have to be afraid to rethink your positions.
As for the video, I found it somewhat lacking in content, actually. Only about three real points were made, and the topic that I find most interesting on a personal level, the one about evolution, went unaddressed.
It doesn't lend much to our previous discussion, though. Frankly, I'm amazed you would so blindly pigeon-hole my supposed position, especially after this talk started out so promising. Again, I'd encourage you not to shy away from a more well-rounded way of looking at the situation.

Have I been unclear about something? I'm certain my points went unmade in the thread, and your lack of a response gives me nothing to work with. I'm more than happy to watch these types of videos, but you can't expect me to discuss opinions that may or may not even be your own. If you actually adopt his point of view word for word, I have to ask why?

Reason does not have to be traded for religion, either, or vice versa. While it's true that the two have been portrayed to be at odds before, they certainly don't have to be, nor should they be. That's a good example of a common misconception.
As for your second note, I guess you'll have to elaborate. It sounds as if you don't like that religion is involved in our society at all, but if that's the case, then it doesn't explain why you take issue with religion in the first place.

Also, if you would prefer a better format than our profiles, you're welcome to skype me at this name.

Morals are not black and white, though, which is the piece of the puzzle you have been missing in regard to this point. Today, a person obviously has the self-restraint not to run around raping and pillaging, and he might even be a swell guy, but it doesn't mean he can't further improve himself through the teachings of Jesus or Buddha, or any other source for that matter. I don't think anyone is implying that we would all be bloodthirsty savages without holy guidance, but that certainly doesn't make those religions useless, and it definitely doesn't make them an obstacle.
The fact that you are slipping back into an attitude of superiority by so casually spitting on an entire group of texts reinforces my belief that you're probably just somewhat misinformed.

It's not as if the morals found in Christianity are not shared with the morals we have as a society today. It shouldn't matter if it's the bible or a close personal friend is telling you that you ought to help your community, those are ideals that I would think should be encouraged by the government whether you tie them to a religion or not. Dawkins and others like him do enjoy citing the archaic portions of the bible as an argument against those general ideals, but misdirection like that shouldn't sway you so easily.
From what you're saying now, it sounds more like your issue is with our hierarchy and practices as a society rather than religion itself.

So, you feel that it's too pervasive? To be fair, can't that attitude go both ways? There are plenty of atheists who trounce on the faintest hints of what they perceive to be the weakness of religion.
Besides, it's not as if anyone is literally holding you down to force a conversion out of you. The closest thing we might have to that today is the occasional knock from a Jehovah's witness, and that hardly even qualifies as an inconvenience; certainly nothing to turn your back on all of religion over.
Surely that isn't your primary motivation behind your belief, is it?

Such a mellow opinion doesn't really reflect your rather hostile demeanor in the thread. There must be something more specific that you take issue with, perhaps with christianity specifically.
As for complexity, that's why I invited personal convos; I wouldn't expect anyone to form opinions lightly.

To be honest, they're scattered throughout the thread, which is why I'm not singling any out so late in the game. Besides, your qualms with religion or christianity may not be the same as another atheist, so it would be far easier to discuss the matter on an individual basis, starting with where you personally part ways with the idea of religion.

im reading game of thrones unfortunately.

yer, im surprised i didnt come across it before. turns out im way too tolerant.

"According to the Qur'an only God Knows who will go to Jahannam (Hell) and who will go to Jannat (heaven). Those who ignored, or only pretended to believe in Allah remain in Jahannam after Qiyamat (Judgment Day)."

- Wikipedia

I have better things to do then fight with a little punk like you. Now piss off.

Go to hell you little *****.

I have taken dumps worth more than you. You are such a little looser. Keep posting crap a my wall you little fuk, i will just laugh at you. You worthless pos.

F youR mom

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