I am a firm believer that 9/11 was an effort to gain support for the war in the middle east by the US government. I REQUIRE THAT BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD YOU WATCH THIS ENTIRE VIDEO. IF IT IS EVIDENT THAT YOU DIDN'T, YOUR POST WILL BE REPORTED. YouTube - Zeitgeist Part Two (9/11) Prove me wrong.
No. Our government is incompetent. If you think they could organize that for a war effort, you got another thing coming. Lying is so much easier, quicker and carries less responsibility. I DESPISE 9/11 truthers... You distract people from the real issues, which is US support of Israel, and make a mockery of the deaths of thousands. Just a copy paste so you'll be satisfied because I'm sure just insulting you won't cut it. ========= WTC 7 was severely damaged and was on fire for hours At 10:29 a.m., WTC 1 (the north tower) collapsed and contrary to the claims of 9/11 conspiracy people, it did not collapse into its footprint like a controlled explosion. (See the diagram) Instead, as the building collapsed, the debris from WTC 1 spilled into the surrounding streets and onto WTC 7 among others, damaging the building. (See the diagram to the left showing the debris in black which extended north beyond WTC 6). read more at link Most 9/11 conspiracy people only show you the east side and north side of WTC 7 but it is the south side of the building that was damaged by the debris from WTC 1 and it is the west side of the building where the smoke was pouring out of. (see figures 5-16 and 5-17) "at the edge of the south face you could see that it was very heavily damaged. ... until you had done either a couple of 360s around this whole site or if you got an aerial view somehow, you really couldn’t appreciate the scope of the damage." - Battalion Chief John Norman Special Operations Command - 22 years see: WTC 7 Page 2 for more eyewitness accounts from firemen and photographic evidence They bring up the Madrid Windsor Tower but Maddrid was a very different construction. From the link you provided: "with a central core of reinforced concrete that resisted the high temperatures of the fire without collapsing." An important point is that the design of the Madrid Windsor Tower was entirely different to that of the WTC. And the steel columns above the 17th floor suffered complete collapse, partially coming to rest on the upper technical floor. Jones and his thermite theory Jones is ridiculous. Now the story is that the buildings fell because "thermite" melted the steel floor by floor? If there was a "thermite reaction" taking place on every floor the melting would take at least a little time and the process would be creating a huge amount of smoke. What we see is a collapse floor by floor, we don't see an enormous amount of smoke (from hundreds of theoretical thermite reactions) suddenly pouring out of the whole building. Think about it, Jones is claiming that as some point thermite reactions took place. If that were so, then where is all the increase in smoke? There would have been an enormous amount of smoke suddenly released well before the collapse as the "thermite" burns through the steel. Remember that it has to start as least some time before the crashing down of the floors. Instead we see the building burning and there is no sudden pouring out of extra smoke preceding the collapse. This thermite theory Jones concocted blurs the idea of explosives and an incendiary reaction. The thermite theory is really as nutty as the "no planes" theory. The very thing that Griffin points to as a feature of a fire caused collapse we can see in photos of the World Trade Center. Griffin writes, "in fire-induced collapses---if we had any examples of such---the onset would be gradual. Horizontal beams and trusses would begin to sag; vertical columns, if subjected to strong forces, would begin to bend. But as videos of the towers show, there were no signs of bending or sagging, even on the floors just above the damage caused by the impact of the planes." But contrary to what Griffin claims, there were indeed signs of bending or sagging. Witnesses reported it and photos document it. Griffin is simply wrong. Griffin erroneously writes "The buildings were perfectly motionless up to the moment they began their collapse." The fact is, before the collapse of either tower, evidence the structures of the WTC were failing, columns bending, floors sagging, was reported by Police, Firemen and civilians. We can see in the photos that the exterior columns were bowing in the minutes before the collapse, in the case of the South Tower, the bending was evident as early as 18 minutes after the plane's impact. Griffin writes, "In controlled demolition, the onset of the collapse is sudden. One moment, the building is perfectly motionless; the next moment, it suddenly begins to collapse." But the buildings did not suddenly collapse without any indications. Instead, exterior columns buckled because the fires weakened the floor trusses and the floors sagged. The sagging floors pulled on intact column connections so as the floors sagged down, they pulled the exterior columns inward. This inward bowing of the exterior columns was evident to observers such as the police helicopters circling the towers. "While the buildings were able to withstand the initial impact of the aircraft, the resulting fires that spread through the towers weakened support columns and floors that had fireproofing dislodged by the impacts. This eventually led to collapse as the perimeter columns were pulled inward by the sagging floors and buckled." "The reason the towers collapsed is because the fireproofing was dislodged," according to Sunder. If the fireproofing had remained in place, Sunder said, the fires would have burned out and moved on without weakening key elements to the point of structural collapse." - Bowing Debunks Explosives WTC photos show buckling steel columns in the minutes before the collapse of the buildings. "Beleive what you will." - Anonymous Anonymous, I know you must feel embarrassed being proven wrong but you can't deny what is in the photos and what was witnessed too. People had been reporting that the building was failing. Blame these "9/11 truth" websites for your embarrassment, they set you up by withholding these facts from you. I have tried to get them to deal with the evidence but they ban me and refuse to link to the photos. Come on man, the very thing Griffin says is evidence of a fire caused collapse we can see in photos had happened! We need to deal with the damn policies. I really am getting sick of this crap. You might also be manipulated by people deflecting away from the actual motives for the 9/11 attacks? Is that your agenda too? Gee whiz, if it was our government that did 9/11 then we don't have to think about the policies of supporting Israel and other oppressive regimes in the Middle East. Is that your freakin' game? See Controlled Demolition Debunked
I would like you to re-examine the part of the video that points out the differences in features of the Osama Bin Laden in the video taking responsibility for the planes, and the one from previous videos. They are clearly different. The real Osama has made it perfectly clear what his agenda is: 1. Remove western influence from the middle east 2. Detroy Israel. 3. Re-establish the Caliphate (a united Islamic empire that existed during the middle ages) They have no desire to attack the US, they simply want the US to get out of the middle east. A place that we do not belong in the first place.
Is it just me, or did you just say everyone who died in the 9/11 was all so America could win? If America would actually do that, we would have been lost out right as a country ages ago. Why don't we bomb the White House too? Let's have the President mysteriously lucky, and get away from that White House, while it is being bombed. Yea, let's hire an Iraqie suicide bomber to do that. Thanks, you just disrespected America, and everyone's death.
Why are we talking about Osama? I want to talk about the mastermind behind the attacks, Kaleek Shek Muhammed (definitely spelled incorrectly). They have every reason to want to attack us, we directly support a blood bath in Palestine every day.
Damn i wish there was still rep. That was brilliantly done and amazingly sourced. Dow, i really hope that you reconsider your stance because i've seen a number of those videos and think they're all BS. Normally they just make me angry to the point where i want to punch someone or something. They're all made by disgruntled people angry at the government, their job, or the economy. They can't accept that this was a true occurance and its a terrible disservice to all those who died in the attacks, and all those who are continuing to die in afghanistan today searching for osama bin laden and his other cohorts.
It is an insult to think this way about our government. To say that mass purposeful killings is the way the government gets their way is wrong. I spent 33:00 watching that damn video and the only questionable thing was the plane crash on Phildelphia. This is one thing that I would like to be clarified, if anyone has some sort of scientific evidence or such. Otherwise, I tried to keep an open mind, but this crap doesn't cut it. Sorry.
Sept. 11 redux: Video shows jet vaporizing Also, YouTube videos are not great places to pull proof from.
I'm sorry, but the whole conspiracy conspiracy is just ****ing retarded. Bush and his administration weren't the best we've had by a long shot, but sacrificing so many is way beyond any normal human morals. There's much easier ways to sway the nation in your favor; think about the civil war propaganda of fliers thrown from roofs into the streets, the Boston Tea Party for the Revolutionary War, etc. Flying three planes into buildings is not damn propaganda. Keep dreaming. "Guy in the video has darker skin than Osama Bin Laden...." ROFL. I also like how they don't take gas pipes threading the building into consideration.
Ok, I am tired of nobody taking me seriously and arguing that "That just isn't true". Either analyze the arguments of the video like Nitrous, or don't ****ing post. If it continues like this, I am going to request a lock.
Simply put, these "Truthers" are just seeing what they desire to see. Because 9/11 was mass murder, they expect a larger corporation to have done it because to them, a small organization could not have done it. Basically like an algebra equation, they expect the answer to be equal to the problem (or event) so that it balances out to their liking.
Dow, you were six ****ing years old in 2001. You've been fed this propaganda bullshit and you're inhaling it like it's air.
I don't like to get in to big debates, but I have to say this. I believe what Dow is saying. I watched a movie about this in History class. Loose Change I think it was. It's on youtube too. It's great. Even if you don't believe, I suggest you watch it.
I've seen Loose Change and I'm still not anywhere near convinced. At around 50 minutes he explains something "falling out a window" and believes its something to do with a bomb, while its really evident that its a poor soul who lost hope and leaped to his death. At the very least, I think its a bunch of BS.
So now, the inevitable question: if terrorists didn't cause 9/11, who did? Remember that there are in fact two towers. Two minus one is one; one one - 11; two minus one is one; one one, and there are nine members on Silverstein's board of directors. That's nine-one-one. Nine-eleven. And take 2 - 1 + 9/11 and you get 12, which leads us all to the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. Kyle! Twelve contains the numbers one and two, just like the toilet yesterday where somebody went number two instead of number one! And one and two with 911 and you get 914! Drop the 4 and it's 91! Exactly the score Kyle got on his spelling test twelve days after 9/11! Who has the most to gain from 9/11?! Kyle! Who was nowhere to be found the morning the towers fell?! Kyle! Who dropped the deuce in the urinal?! Kyle!
Pretty much is the same ****ing **** that they say in the damn video. The person who posted the counterarguments made too strong of points. All the confusion occuring on 911 caused these people to hear things. The bombing preperations in London is bullshit. The fact that the basement bombing was the governments ideas is bullshit. And the fact that a government would kill it's own citizens for a couple bills and wasteful spending is even shittier. If the president was smart enough to organize all this ****, then how come he didn't forcefeed a bill that would require a 100 million dollar deposit in his bank of some sort. Screw this ****, screw the arguments, and screw you for suggesting a thread lock over unarguable ****. It's ridiculous. To prove my point, Im a year older than you and the video Nearly convinced me. Yep...AND I don't listen to metal and BMX OR become so easily convinced over obviously fastpaced films with withheld facts.