Sandbox Precursor

Yeah I have spent some more time looking through it and I am not so worried anymore. It is a great map and is up there with the top custom BTB maps (Frailty still holding king for the moment ). Two more suggestions I have thought of while looking at it in forge:

I think the defender's base needs a small block or something on the inside of both the power drain and trip mine windows so you are able to jump out the front of the base from the inside, it currently feels a little claustrophobic.

Secondly, I really don't think power ups have a place in BTB, especially more than one of them on the same map. That's just a pet hate though.

 

Haha well it's more like a BTB map than most of the other Sandbox variants that are actually trying to BTB maps, so good work none the less.

Is it at all possible to merge tiny ramps (with the flat end facing up) with the blocks below the windows? That might work, I just haven't had much success merging immovable objects with movable ones. Just an idea

 

I just want to put people at ease about the whole "spawn killing" at the attackers base. It just wasn't an issue. You hardly spawn there. I played three or four games on this map and wasn't spawn killed. Not saying that it couldn't happen, cause it happens occasionally on every map, its just not a problem here. The spawns are really good. Just give the map a try, like Reiko says, and you'll see.

 

I have a couple comments about the design that, in theory, could prove problematic.

The attackers' base essentially has no re-entry. Once a player steps off the front, if he needs to get back up there, he'll have to walk all the way around to the sand. I have to commend you on the construction of the base. It's freakin' sweet. But I think a couple ramps could do you good. They could drop below before the lip and could also save you some budget, depending how you worked them out.

The other concern I have is for the defenders' base. If you goal is to work in one-sided objective games, the defenders' base seems extremely easy to defend because of a limit of choke points. It seems from the pictures you have 3 openings at the front of the base. The problem is defenders can probably work those choke points together as if they are one. In other words, since they are so close and within the same field of view, they act almost like one choke point. What if you moved the two upper openings around the side a bit?

I'm also wondering what a deployable grav lift would do for accessibility.

Overall, it looks like you put a lot of thought into designing this map, and it looks great. The center structure looks like something I'd like to play around. Another problem I have, however, is besides the center structure and the bases, there isn't a whole lot of other geometry. If your goal is to drive people to the center, I think it's important to help them get there, meaning I think you should add some more geometry between the bases and center structure. Of course, it depends on what your budget is like.

 

I don't normally reply to a map before having a fair few games on it but the geomerged semi-circle base looks brilliant. I have my intial worries about the open-ness of the back of the bases but I won't make a judgement until I've played it. I'll have a very long session of gaming coming up on Sunday so I'll do my best to get some games in and give you a detailed review.

 

You can actually jump back up the front of the attackers base using the short pillars in front of it

 

It's maps like this that make me realize how much I suck. Definite DL.

 

Just had a pretty in-depth forget-hrough on this. I haven't played any actual games on it as of me typing this, so take what you will from an experienced forger, and Ill try and get some games on it ASAP.

First and foremost, being that this is only your 2nd map release, I must say bravo. You have a pretty good knack for not only forging, and youve got a solid grasp on basic map design as well. Its a shame that you hit the OLN so early on, with over $250 left, this really could have been a top-notch map. Its still good, dont get me wrong.. but most certainly could have benefited from those extra items tremendously.

I do see some things that could make the map better that you could probably change. If you don't plan on making changes to this map, then just think of this as advice for future maps.

The first thing I noticed right off the bat is the large amount of flickering and z-fighting with the geometry of the attacker's base. Its too much to handle. Id rather ditch a design entirely than to deal with that constant flickering all the time. Some people can tolerate it at different levels, but its pretty bad in that section. Some slight re-adjusting of those pieces (though Im sure would be very difficult due to the merging) would go a long way in cleaning that area up.

Sticking with the attacker's base for a bit, there really needs to be more cover there. I know you said that you don't spawn there too often, so you don't see it as a problem, but Id have to question why you would spawn somewhere other than your own base so frequently? That in itself is odd. If you had more items to place, Id love to see that structure built up a bit more in terms of overall geometry. Cut down some sight lines from the middle structure, and keep players spawning there more often.

I get that you have the 3 stone platforms that you can double jump into the A base, like you addressed with Madman, but Id still like to see ramps replace the two outer stone platforms. That way, the quickest way to get into the base still requires the double jump and the risk along with it, but also makes the map a bit more intuitive because you aren't 'forcing' your players to jump so much. I know you could just walk around to the edge, but really, who wants to do that? A couple ramps would go a long way, and could be exchanged in immediately without item limit repercussions.

On to the central structure. I think the overall design of it is very nice. I really like the multi-layered aspect and how you achieved it without leaving the bottom area too cramped, which I see too often in structures of this nature. I do however, think that there needs to be more ways to get onto the structure from the attacking side. As is, you have to walk into the struicture then wrap back around towards your base on a large corner. Having a ramp on the outer rim as opposed to inside, or even in addition to the inside ones would be beneficial (the wrap around bit isnt a huge issue by any means, but it would be nice to have some on the front side). I also would caution the excessive use of the large corners as ramps. They are okay in moderation, but the angle of them makes them a threat in the heat of the battle as opposed to the usual large ramps. Id use large ramps whenever I could, and then use the large corners when I had no other options.

The D base is pretty solid, I must say. THe only thing I can really suggest there would be to make the 2 outer side entries about 1.5 times as wide as they are now. That would limit the unified chokepoint issue that Madman brought up (and was a pretty valid point). Other than that I think you did a very nice job with that section.

The side and auxilliary structures all look fine and nicely done. Nothing to complain about there at all.

Vehicles/Weapons: I think you should up the respawn timers on both Warthogs (by 90 seconds each), the Spartan Laser (by at least a minute), the Sniper Rifle (by at least 30 seconds), the Missile Pod (by a minute) and the Rockets (by a minute). Right now, everything is coming back faar too quickly, and the power weapons really lose their lust and effectiveness when they are found so frequently. The power-ups should probably be raised by about 30s each as well. Id switch out the Shotguns for maulers. Having 2 shotty's there is bad news, especially when they both have an extra clip. Switching them to Maulers will limit their power, and you could still keep two of them opposing each other. The alternative would be to ditch one of the shotguns and replace it with a couple duals, perhaps. I think all of your equipment is placed just fine and is spawning at appropriate measures.

Spawns. These are a little harder too judge without games, but I will say that from experience, the amount of respawn zones you have for CTF are not necessary. Try and take something like High Ground's CTF spawn system and copy it over to yours, just to try it out if nothing else. Though, they could work just fine, as I haven't experienced it first hand quite yet. But generally, mimicing default bungie maps is the best way to go, if you can find one that somewhat resembles your map's style.

One note about starting spawns: you only need one per team, per gametype. Meaning, you don't need 6 starting spawns for attack and 6 for D. you only need 1 for each, and the game will spawn your teammates as close to you as possible. Again, check out some of the default maps and how they work their spawns. In this map's particular case, the 6 starting spawn points might actually be necessary for the attacking team, being that there just aren't too many spawns in the immediate area. but as I addressed earlier, I believe thats an issue in itself. In the D base, Id move your starting spawn point to the back, and facing the middle of the map/attackers base. Its important to orient your players towards their objective (which in this case, is stopping the attackers). Having them point towards the back corner of the map can be a little disorienting for someone who has little experience on your map, and that time spent gaining your bearrings could be better used gaining the upper edge on your opponents. In general, the rest of the spawn points seem to be in appropriate places and are oreinted well.

Ok, if you could bear with me through thatgreat wall o' text, thanks. I really only make posts like this when I see a map that I think is good, but also pretty close to being really great. And in this case, since you don't quite have the items necessary to get the map to that level, I see a pretty talented forger with what seems to be a damn good amount of potential. Good job on Precursor. Really, despite all of the above, I do think you did a good job. Especially for your 2nd release. Ill definitely be on the lookout for future work rom you.

Cheers.

 

Wow great post LightsOut. Pretty much goes into far more detail than I was about to in regard to similar things. I ran through the map yesterday with some inexperienced forgers to get some outside opinions and they all liked the general structures though they did have a couple of queries.

One person was quick to complain about the flickering objects in the offensive base (as has been said, I realise how hard that would be to fix). There was some brief confusion as to how to get into the offensive base from the front also.

Otherwise though, they were very impressed and reinforced my opinion of this map. Good work and good luck with any changes, if you decide to make them.

 

Wow amesomone map !!!! It could be in matchmaking like the map utah mambo ! First i like your base they are simple amazing and she have a good merge ! Second the midlle looks like Utah Mambo but in litle version and last comments the weapon and vehicule selection go with the map so good job featured sure at 100 % ! 10/5 Lol i beat the score !

 

Wow, this is aetheticaly amazing! I really love the half circle base but I think it might need a tad more cover. I also really liked the geomerged obilisks. The entire map has flawless forging. It wouldn't surprise me if this gets featured.

 

Excellent geomerging! I've attempted something similar before and its very difficult to get right. Very nice. Really the geomerged structures is the highlight of your map. I can't say I love the other parts between the bases(just an opinion), but they are forged at an excellent quality as well no matter if I like it or not. I don't like that you can't get back up on the curved base without going around. A way to get up from the front or off to the side would be nice. I like how you made it so the offensive base has little cover near their base. It would be interesting to see how the map would be if the defensive base had a lot of cover near it and it got more scarce as you went to the offensive base and completely eliminated the middle structure. Just a thought.

Nice map. Worth a download.