The problem is that you can't open/close pallets like you can with doors. So they can't block the only entrance into an area, because then humans either can't enter or forfeit the benefit. They're more of a temporary wall; an alert system, I guess.
The humans have high damage modifiers so they can open them. The zombies have low damage modifiers so it takes longer.
just make sure you scale up the defense to whatever the knew attack rating is, remember humans should take 10-15 sword melees to drop shields and 1-2 more to kill, zombies should die in 1-2 good hits from a power weapon, just don't make them too weak, as both sides must be balanced and fun to play. Last did we ever decide on how custom power up boosts a tank should be? I say he should be faster then survivors, jump higher, kill in 3-4 hits and be about as tough as a survivor.
I think the most hits pallets can take would be 4, and that's if the zombies have 10% damage modifiers. I guess you could then change the humans' damage resistance to maintain the balance between the two, but...seems like a lot of extra work for only 1 or 2 more punches. EDIT: Should the pallets be set to respawn, so that they CAN be "opened" and then "closed"? I normally set them to never respawn, but...
IMO Only a few doors should respawn. Like say, a back entrance should respawn every 20-30 seconds. This should keep the survivors attention where most zombies are coming from.
Finally got my 360 back up and finished my map guys. Here's a link to the thread - http://www.forgehub.com/forum/casual-maps/74624-youre-your-own-buddy.html#post909911
Will there be vampirism for the infected (not just the tank)? If we balanced it just right we would force the survivors to have 2 people kill one infected I doubt this will even work, or that anyone will like the idea, but if it does...
By vampirism do you mean shield vampirism? I don't quite see if that would be good for the build, as limited health encourages one good attack not hit and run, however, we never figured out any numbers for regular infected, or the tank, the only number we have right now is 12-15 sword melees for human health (300% resist+4*overshield), as for non tanks i would say, regular health, no regen, this forces the infected to maake the most of their short lives like in versus, as for tank, i suggest we give him the same health as a survior, but with 10% shield degen to imitate the frustration meter. In this suggested build I have everyone at 100% damage setting, anyone else have a thought on how tough the infected or humans should be?
my idea of vamparism would be that an infected hits the survivor and that survivor is pounced because the infected takes as much damage as he gets back, and you would need 2 survivors to kill a damging infected Like I said earlier I dont think this will work, but I thought I would throw it out there.
Zombies should have no shields (which also means no leech), 50% resistance, and 300% damage modifier. Movement is 50% gravity, 150% movespeed. Vehichle use set to off, etc. Hunters get active camo only. While it could be argued that they should be tougher, not invisible, after testing it I disagree. A zombie that is simply tougher can still be killed quickly by a good team. However, and invisible zombie presents a new play style which differs from the standard rush. At the very least, a hunter can play mind games; at his best, he can assassinate a camper. Tanks get custom powerups which give them 150% resistance, 2x overshields, slow recharge, 150% gravity, and 75% movespeed. Humans get 100% damage modifier, 1000% damage resistance, 2x overshields, no recharge, and 100% gravity and movespeed. And finally, if you HAVE to have some sort of door which can open and close, use barriers (on Sandbox). They can be meleed out of the way by zombies, and shot through by humans.
wait, what? you have the zombies set up that practically one hit from ANYTHING will kill them, and dont get me started on the problems of one headshot kills with a good group, I tried that already with people my skill level, they killed me 30 times without dying, zombies NEED regular health with no regen to give them ANY chance of survival. As for your tank build I know the tank is slower then a human with 40% + health in L4D HOWEVER, if you leave him like this he can ONLY work against humans in a corner, I suggest we leave him at 150% or at minumum 110% so he can close the distance to the humans, as for his health, might I remind you you have the current tank set up as twice as tough as a default player in Halo, and I have NEVER seen a tank go down in 3 shotgun shells. As for your humans, they can only take about 6-7 sword melees before dieing, AND I have requested time and time again to have lower damage resist and more overshields to help keep the health system intact because when you run out of shields body health still regens and the damage resist stacks on, if you have a good reason for ignoring this I would like an answer.
i was thinking... i greatly agree with the IDEA of the maps and gametypes being implemented. BUT why, oh why, do they (the creators of survival 1 & 2) not get the idea about the gametype being really messed up!?! (and the maps aren't perfect either, more specifically the zombie spawns) theres a few BIG problems: 1)the zombies and the humans always pick up each others weapons! - easy fix. just replace the tank's custom power-up with an overshield and make the custom be the only way for zombz to pick up weapons. For the humans though... i know that being able to trust the people in the party to play fair is the key element in this gametype. I was thinking though, mabye they could make it to where the humans start of with only a limited amount of time after respawn to be abe to pick up weapons. Actually you could just do that with the zombs too if you dont want to change any of the power-up placements and stats, correct? so thats one problem down! 2)what is the deal with the boomer? between the couple of games i played the boomer always has some of the cheapest weapons. yes, the boomer does blind people! so its cool to use the flash bomb. yes the boomer has a limited range of attacking people, but really, why would you give it a shotty? thats clearly i human weapon and is still too much room to let the zomb get away with. so what should you give it? just give it rockets! just kidding, im not that messed up. ;P what you really should give it is either a sword like the regular infected or mabye you could give it a sword! there's nothing special about how the bommer hurts compared to the other infected! so swords it is! 3) infection weapon starts are wack. -k, the infected are alright, although there was one gametype of survival where the zombz start with machine guns, wth? - the hunters are cool, but in my opinion i believe that they should be only poor camoflaged not the whole way. we're not playing predator mode right? so mabye they should change the custom power-up to be a poor camo for the hunter and leave the tank with just a hammer and an over shield. -the smoker is fine with its tongue being represented by a sentinal beam. -tank is good with hammer and overshield. its okay to have a tank with zombie speed and looks! we can see by the hammer that its a tank. we dont need it to be orange! 4) no no no, the shielders are way too much help for the zombz! - that pretty much explains it! not a good move. i definately recommend that anyone out there should be creative and implement any new ways of playing infection but the shielder is really an unfair advantage when the bubble is put next to the wall that your on the other side of so that the tank can wail on you! 5) keep the health regenerators as health packs... no! you see, since the humans cant pick up weps now mabye they should put some overshields on the map as med kits. but alas... the zombs want the health packs to be bye-bye so im sure some forging magic could fix that in a giffy but thats not what im here to criticize though. so thats all i can think of for now since im already tired of talking about that "left in bed" i know that instead of ranting i should just make it myself but wheres the fun in that? so if anyone know of any bug fixes i missed or just don't agree with me about one of my fixes, rant about it like i did! or just comment. on a different note, i REALLY love the remakes being made on sandbox!!! if anyone is currently making one i would like to check it out izzle! as for me im still fixing my old stuff and spitting out gametypes every five seconds (not litteral). so yeah, keep up the awesome work fellow forgers! agreed!!!
Zombies have a limited time to pick up their weapons and human weapons (aside from the hammer) are far superior to their zombie counterpart. Already decided that zombies get swords, unless someone provides a very good argument why another weapon is a better starting weapon. The Tank NEEDS the costum power-up, simple as that, they are much stronger than any normal zombie so giving him double the health doesn't cut it, he needs more. The sheilder is specific to that map and isn't in the normal map set, If the creator believes that the sheilder should be in his map, we cant stop him, we are only here to discuss the game variant. Health packs are out of the question to have a health system we need regeneration to be off disabling regens and oversheilds. This is all stuff we already went over...just telling you if you didn't fell like reading 28 pages
one thing still up for debate however is the spawn rate of infected, (your chance of being a certain type), in my opinion we should use a small amount of spawn points, 10-20, so if unless someone has a good reason I say we keep it simple. As for spawn rates, 30% should be common, this gives the common the highest spawn chance, but is low enough that you shouldn't spawn as it too often. I personally think that the boomer, smoker, and hunter should all take a 20% chance of spawning, I know that the numbers you get in survival mode vary on this but we have no director, so our only tool to balance spawning is give all specials an even chance, excluding the tank. Finally 10% should be allotted to the tank AND any custom infected the map designer wants, this will keep the effects of the custom infected to a minimum and greatly ease testing times, as very few people spawn as custom infected so as long as the core set is balanced their map will be too, as for the tank, this gives your team a fair chance of spawning own each game, but little enough too make two tanks at the same time a very rare occurrence. As for custom infected I suggest that we let each map maker choose to include 1 and only one custom infected OR a second spawn point for the tank (if we use my suggested 20 spawn system). Anyone else have a comment on spawn rates?
I say we use a chance spawn system and a timer spawn system that way if someone spawns as a tank in the first 5 seconds of the game he wont get the tank because the equipment hasn't spawned yet. and if everyone spawns as a smoker, only one guy gets to be a smoker every 20-30 seconds.
k, the idea is great and is actually implemented in a map that got on bungie favs this one but also you have to consider this spawn theory other than the constant sway of kills in specific areas, the spawns would be great as long as they are far away from the battle field
I believe the timers will solve that problem quite nicely so as long as we give each class the appropriate spawn timers Things we need to make happen -Survivors need 10-15 sword slashes of health -Infected need to be as strong as they can while still dying from one sniper shot -Tank needs to always best a lone survivor -Hunter power-ups both camo and oversheild? -four slashes of an infected sword to break a pallet I'll get on these all today or tomorrow
by spawn times, you mean to limit the amount of infected of a type AT ONE TIME, just for clarification. By doing this you increase the number of common infected, however, you rob the chances of a larger team to have more special infected, perhaps we should have 2 sets for each special, and keep the respawn timer on each set 30 sec (like the respawn time of special infected in L4D), if we do this then you can not be "rushed" by an army of smokers or hunters, as for the tank in this matter, there should only be one set of tank gear and it should respawn every minute, meaning the MINIMUM time between tanks is one minute, allowing survivors to regroup for the next one. Overall I support your system, as long as special infected have 2 sets of gear, and the tank and any custom infected have one, and all non tank or custom infected gear respawns every 30 sec and all tank and custom gear respawns every minute. As for your notes, first off survivors need 300% damage resist+ 4* overshield (12 times the default player health or "Spartans"), this should give the humans an acceptable range of health. Next i suggest moving up the zombie base health from 1 to 2 spartans, by increasing the damage resist to 200%. Three the tank should have the health system of a survivor with 5% shield degen, double power (200%) and be FASTER (I say 110% speed and survivors at 100%) and jump higher (75% gravity) then survivors, in this way the tank feels like a tank, but can catch up to survivors as if they had less then 40 health in L4D. fourth you can not do both active camo AND overshield, you will have the aura around you body making the camo useless, i say active camo, as it forces the hunter to try to take out humans who don't use radar, as apposed to just rushing in. As for 4 slashes to break in a pallet, I think that is impossible to implement and keep other things working, this is just my opinion but, health system trumps environment, so we just have to live with this, another way is just have the pallet respawn to "close" the door giving the humans more total time to react, like a harder wall would do. Finally something I want to discuss, I believe that the core infected should be in every map, but each map maker should have the right to invent and use ONE custom infected, taking up a tank spawn. By doing this you can increase the possiblities we control, but keep the core feeling, and with such a low rate of custom infected they shouldn't severaly unbalance the game. In the end I believe that the possiblites in this suggested system out way its problems. However, I want everyone else's opinion on this, can we include one custom infected per map, if limit it to a 5% spawn chance and a one minute timer between each one?
Hey guys, sorry I haven't been active on the forums as of late, but I have been busy with my grade 9 exams and such. Well, over the time I haven't been on, somehow My hospital got deleted. So I am not going to be making it. I will happily be a tester for anyone, and help out as much as I can, though I wont be making any L4D maps. (Remakes give me trouble) But I will be making a Conquest map, so watch for that.