Alright, I know I will probably regret creating this thread, because it begs ignorance and this forum has alot of it. Therefor, this is in General Chat, not Debate (and not just because I despise the "Debate" section), because this is a discussion about what method should the United States Government use to fix it's economy. We are not here to talk about Democrats, Republicans, Obama, Socialism, who started it, or any other form of propaganda bullshit. We are not going to talk about how Obama is failing/suceeding with his stimulus plan, though you are more than welcome to talk about said stimulus plan. We are simply here to discuss what you think will most benefit the American Economy. If I see anyone straying from that topic, having repeated ignorance in their posts, disobeying the rules of the forum and of this thread, or insulting other members for their views when it is in no way justified, I will see to it that you get infracted. If such behavior persists, this thread will be locked. That aside, now onto the main topic. It is no surprise to anyone in the world that the American Economy is failing. We will not discuss why necessarilly, because we are hear to talk solutions, not problems. What is your own personal plan that you think will best pull America out of this economic disaster? Think carefully though, because most every plan has pro's and con's to it, and be prepared to be quesioned as to why you believe what you do. It should also be something that you would back 100%, because you genuinely see that it would work. When logical, support your comments with a cited source (you will see in my opinion later in this post). And again, we are not here to argue or debate, but to discuss in a peaceful fashion. If you are not an American resident, that is perfectly fine. I believe that some of the most valued opinions of my country come from outside eyes. So, with that lengthy introduction, here is my opinion. [I'd like to apologize ahead of time, that my citing isn't quite thorough. I am suffering severe internet issues, and it takes minutes to load a single page, should it even load.] ---------------------------------------------------------------- Currently, the government is enacting an American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, which is working on creating more jobs through government employment (such as national road construction) and numerous other goals to boost the American Economy. [1] One of the methods being used is the Stimulus Plan, a plan that entails government spending and tax measures to stimulate the economy by investing government "bail out" cash into major companies. [2] $700 billion was invested in the TARP bail out alone, with the government planning to invest trillions more in other commitments. [3] This TARP bail out is money being used to stimulate companies such as AIG ($40 billion), Wells Fargo ($25 billion), and additional businesses ranging from banking to car manufacturers. [4] While I do support the general idea of Government tax dollars being used to stimulate the economy, I do not support the fact that it is going toward major corporations, many of which failed due to poor business practice. Instead, I believe this money should be given back to American families. As of 2008, credit card debt reached "$972.73 billion, up 1.12% from 2007." [5] As of May 2009, the unemployment rate reached 9.4%. [6] Suffice it to say, American spending has begun to cut back as families fear debt that they cannot pay off, while current debt increases. However, saving is not the best move. Now, not only are major companies and businesses feeling the hurt, but smaller store chains and even the average "Mom and Pop" shops. In my opinion, this economy needs the people to be out spending to stimulate the economy, and paying back their debts thus stimulating the banks. There are roughly 72,000,000 registered American families (households). [7] If the $700 billion of TARP Bail Out cash was instead equally distributed to all of those families, that is just under $10 thousand dollars a family, and this is not even counting the trillions of other dollars the government plans to invest. Now, with this new influx of cash, what will families do with it? They'll either go out and spend it, stimulating the economy, or save and deposit it in the bank, stimulating the banks who can use that money to start paying off debt. Again, this is only with $700 billion in American Tax dollars so far distributed to companies, going back to the tax payers. If you include the $2.5 trillion spent by the government (not the $12.2 trillion committed) [8], that is roughly and additional $35 thousand being returned to the average tax paying American family, of which will be used to stimulate the economy through natural saving and spending.
I think the best way is to increase the american value of the dollar. Alot of countries and companies right now are not trusting us because the value of the dollar has decreased. This makes them too scared to help or trade with us. If you can incresae the value, then people will have more confidence to spend. And, as we know, spending is what will bring the economy back. A second thing we should do is pay off the national debt. When this happens, we will be able to spend without having to worry about the future. And, this also comes with many other good effects on trade and the economy.(Andrew Jackson was the only president to pay off the national debt) ____________________ Although I think your "pay off debt" theory is great, I can see flaws. People would think that the government would always pay off there debt and this would soon cause problems. Plus, politicians would think that the government should bail out the country and this can cause dependence.(i.e. Everyone right now is depending on obama to fix everthing : P) The banks would also not trust the government as the banks would think that the government would target them and erase their clients mistakes to fix the problem.
The problem is that people have grown to think they are owed something in this country. Living off of welfare is now treated as a right, not a privilege. Everyone points the finger at people who are succeeding at life in general and tell them to "pay up" for the rest of us, who fail because of stupid mistakes or for being complete idiots. It's not fair to those who have worked hard all their lives, making right decisions with their mortgages and investments, to now have to bail out those who have been living the high life for so many years with luxuries they can't afford. Rule no 1. ALWAYS TRUE= Those who succeed, succeed for a reason. Rule no 2. ALWAYS TRUE= Those who fail, fail for a reason. Now, the reason in both of these rules is always different. Sometimes it's just circumstances. They were destined to fail or succeed. Most however, are decisions. Now you may be saying, Zander, we know that things are bad, but people need help. We're charitable people. Plus it's in our best interests to help them anyway. So how the hell are we going to fix this? Remember those rules? Well, distinguish the reasons for failure or success. Until companies, or people implement these successful reasons into their companies or lives do not give them a free hand out. The problem will never be solved. You'll be throwing money into a bottomless pit. For example, if we bail out GM without first telling them "you will now ONLY make gas efficient cars" the company will fail again and again. In short- Don't give out money until you are sure the problem is fixed. Get those dumbasses who spend the money on private jets OUT of their positions FIRST.
@ SaucyCardog However, the reason the American value is worth so little is because of our economy. It is not nearly as simple as just increasing the value of the American dollar. As for paying off the Nation's debt, yes that is very important. However, we are in debt for a reason, and that reason being we cannot sustain ourselves if we pay off our national debt. @Zander1994 I know that you family is/was better off from previous posts of yours, so I can't help but feel that your comments are a bit self-centered. Afterall, what have you done to deserve the money your family has? There is always a reason, but that reason doesn't always equate to the person themselves (as you said yourself). A family getting unjustly sued because of our "failed" legal system cannot help the fact that they are now struggling. Also, "destiny" has nothing to do with this, because you can never prove that someone was "destined" to be poor/rich. Keep in mind, this is a discussion about fixing the economy, not about moral practices after it is "fixed". @ SaucyCardog and Zander1994 I think you are both missing the main reason behind my theory. Government bail out money is the American people's tax dollars, so it is not a free handout. Our nation was free of taxes until World War II, where taxes were justified because they were "needed" to keep the United States in that war, but were supposed to be removed after the war was over. However, that was not the case and we've been taxed ever since. [1] Similar to interest in a bank, you pay taxes and are promised a return. Also, one could argue that since the rich are logically getting taxed more, should that money be distributed equally among the American populace, then the rich would be losing out. However, this is not always true because many rich people (who consequently own or are partners in a company/business) dodge taxes by doing Business Expense Tax Deductions. As it works now, income taxing is a percentage of a person's gross profit. If you take a man who makes $1 million dollars every year, the amount he owes in taxes to the government far exceeds that of a man making $100 thousand a year. However, the multi-millionaire can also afford personal jets and vacation retreats, of which he writes off as business expenses. These are deducted from their gross profit, and now it appears on paper that he is too only making $100 thousand a year, when in reality he is making much more. [2] However, this is going off on the subject of equal taxing. The point here being, it isn't a free government hand out when it is the tax dollars that the American people pay being returned to them with a potential bonus (depending on how much the family pays in taxes, obviously).
You are missing my point. The value of the dollar is not 100% dependent on the economy. If I own a store and lower a $2 pop to $1.50, the value of the dollar can go farther, regardless of the economy. Now I know what your saying. The store is dependent on the economy. Well, I am not talking about all stores in the country doing something like that forever, I saying stores lowering their prices by enough for a few weeks. Now the national debt is somehting I think we should decrease over time. Now, I have to question your theory again. If we wipe debt from people, banks will not be able to sustain all their banks. You cant just solve problems by wiping others out.
Here's a paper I wrote in my AP Econ class on the Stimulus Package awhile ago, it answers the topic in question as well. Sorry for the Wall of Text If you want a summary just read the last paragraph which sums up most of it.
The invisible hand of the free market would have self-corrected the economic recession. Instead we have regulation of the banking industry (Fannie and Freddie), we are devaluing our currency, we have an unsustainable, interventionous foreign policy and worst of all both parties are leading us to a more statist government rather than a libertarian government. By raising minimum wage they put out small businesses and by nearly every other order of magnitude of "help" they bestow they drive us further and further into the ashes of our ruined government, our ruined ideals, and our stolen freedoms. It's a pyramid scheme and you're **** out of luck.
I agree with both Nitrous and Zander. The government should not interfere with the economy, the economy, by its very nature, corrects itself. If a few businesses fail, new ones will rise to takes their places, and the new businesses will be better. Government deficit spending needs to be decreased, as our national debt is already almost greater than our GDP (which is a terrifying thought).
That's a good idea, but do you really think that the economy will correct itself? Did the government leave it be during the great depression? Anyway, I'm actually British but we have a huge economic problem over here. Woolworths, Northern Rock and two national furniture companies died because of the "credit crunch" and for some reason everyone's pointing the finger at our prime minister and the Labour Party. Sure, he doesn't work brilliantly under pressure but if the Conservative party win power, how will it be any better? Their policy is similar to Zander's opinion on how the american economy is working at the minute. Anyway, I'm kinda thinking on my feet here because I'd hate to see such an intelligent thread die, even if I know very little about Economics or Politics.
That's a bit like saying, "We should stop trying to **** around with the environment by stopping people from planting trees. Eventually nature will fix itself. Global warming and global cooling cycles around, and it'll come back to be suitable for humans." Yeah, it will, but then in between motions, we ****ing die. The up and down changes of it kills us. In the economy, the slump ****ing sucks. The thing is, government control is trying to keep the up/down cycle from continuing, and enforcing a strict bull market. But there's no way you can force the market to stay completely still if you don't completely control it. And that loss of freedom in the economy is well not worth the tradeoff from a bull/bear market roller coaster.
Well, if your saying we need to end capatilism like china, that would not help in terms of freedom. I am not bashing on the idea. In fact, it would be the best way to keep the economy in check. It's just that, it would cause so much anger and tensions over loss of freedoms. My "value of the dollar" idea is what I think is the best way to fix the ecomony. Like I said, if we fix prices the value of the dollar goes up. People will then want to spend with the low prices. Plus, it balances the economy out.