Simply, FORGE wasn't meant to be a Map Editor/Creator... get over that fact. At first, it was meant as an experiment to mess with objects. Then Bungie wisely decided to let people shape the gameplay area with foundry, and they did. Sandbox is meant to let you guys let your imagination flow. The reason they added a sky bubble in is so that it would eliminate the wall problem. the crypt was meant to help you use less resources for walls, and the middle? used for bases. Simple.
The crypt tunnel is perfect. Put an object in it too go partly down, add a Zombie Infection spawn, cover the top with pallets and it's like the Zombies are actually coming from Hell.
1 Alpha zombie. One block in the tunnel, the least-far way down. (Usually small column) Spawn on top of it. Zombie slashes pallets until broken. Zombie breaks out. The game begins.
Sweeny, I just want to know how you can truly say that the Crypt's walls are better than Foundry's. If you block off Foundry's back area, you only have to deal with that one little lip at the bottom, and at the hangar doors. In the Crypt, I have tried to place walls at 90 degree angles from the side of the Crypt, about a large block's length away, and there's a difference of about a wall's thickness between the ends of said walls. But wait, it gets better! If I make it so those 2 walls ARE even distance from the side, then guess what? I've got myself a nice little hole where stray nades fly into. Bungie did not give us everything that was reasonable. I'm no game designer, but I would think that a nice, flat edge on the blocks and walls, one that lines up with other objects, would be EASIER than all this texture BS that forces everyone to use glitches to make their maps work the way they want them to. And as far as your list of unreasonables? Let's whittle that down. Huge blank canvas with no scenery? Not even near unreasonable, for all intents and purposes we have that. Unlimited Budget/OLN? You got one there. Diversity of items? Would it have hurt to not put the SAME skin on every block we have? I would have much rather had something such as a fence wall than thick ramps. Switching on and off interlocking? Not nearly a necessity if objects fit together. Geomerging without effort? See above. No annoying geometry? Sounds like less coding they'd have to do. Ability to set death barriers? They gave us Kill Balls, no? Looks like they already did that, and I'm not gonna even complain about how we should be able to change dimensions much like a Hill or Territory. Somehow, Sweeny, I think that your post MAY have been heavily influenced by the fact that you are one of the more capable forgers on the site. Most of us aren't, and I think a lot of the more elite members tend to forget that. Just because you can see a crooked wall, and be like 'pfft geomerg'd' to fix it doesn't mean that we all can. I don't feel like spending 15 minutes placing a single wall, that should be able to be placed in 15 seconds. It doesn't mean we're all lazy if we can't make our maps perfect, as you imply. So next time you feel like dropping a steaming crock of arrogance and condescendence like that post you made there, take your nose out of Bungie's rectum and don't.
the only thing sandbox is good for is the skybox when they were first talking about sandbox i thought it was going to be large enough for btb but when i got it that wasnt what it was i was planning large btb maps and i get a map that is only double the size of foundry which is kinda small look at the rest of halo's maps most of them are larger than sandbox
Typically, people who suck at Forge, don't join Forge Hub. Why do you think after all this time only one Fat Kid map has been posted. Forge Hub is a group of forgers who actually use creative thought process to forge a map that is fun and enjoyable for people of any age and skill level. Forge Hub is not a group of forgers who slam **** into a huge piled mess, and add dumpster width hallways with a machine gun turret facing the zombie's spawn, and saying it's balanced because the zombie has 4x Overshield. There's a very large difference in quality between Forge Hub maps, and B.net maps, which is why our standards our higher. In layman's terms: Use some sentient thought before you pile **** into the corner of the map, and expect everyone here to hail it has the second coming of Jesus Christ.
The hitboxes of the blocks and the shape of the crypt were terrible calls on somebody's part. It defeats the entire purpose. What is sandbox for? Forge. Why is the crypt there? To be a foundry +. So the biggest downfall of foundry, the annoying slants in the walls and stuff sticking out everywhere, had to be put in too? Why would you do that? They could have just put the gold hieroglyphics on the wall itself instead of throwing down a huge pillar. Maybe the chunks broken off the blocks are more aesthetically pleasing, but couldn't you at least leave the hitbox a solid prism?
It's not like we're the only Halo community out there. Because I'm too lazy to have to reply to every single complaining post in here, I'm just going to sum it all up with this: This thread is a compendium of bitching, whining, and general uselessness. It is in my belief that the majority of you people have no patience with Forging and wanted a supremely easier way to Forge, and that upon discovering that Sandbox does not make it easier to Forge but just makes it more flexible, you went into a hissy fit about how you wasted $20. I award you no points, and may God have mercy upon your soul.
IIDTWYCT has the right idea here. You see, Cheat, we are not poor forgers. Nobody in their right mind can deny that the easier it is to forge a map the better. Maybe you should lay off the excessive insults and mindless arrogance and appreciate that, with little effort on Bungie's part, Sandbox could have been much easier to forge on.
Define sucking at Forge. Because Fat Kid is sucking at either gametypes or fun, the map COULD be impeccably forged, and then your argument wouldn't hold water. I suck at Forging, but I can look at a map and see where imbalance lies, and I've planned out a few maps that seem to be well balanced, but my lack of Forging skill and patience seem to doom me to getting pissed off when stuff isn't cleanly matched up. Your entire post seems to assume that I find Fat Kid a good game variant. All I did was point out that Sweeny is a very talented Forger, and may not realize that things such as geomerging is too much of a pain in the ass for commonplace forgers. Remember, not everybody who decides to try and forge a map thinks 'Well I better go find assistance online from forging communities first.' EDIT: Oh the irony. I knew Forging wasn't going to be easier. I was hoping that Bungie would make it so that people don't have to exploit glitches that they didn't intend to be there in order for maps to work fluently.
Well, come tell me when you find a Fat Kid variant that is cleanly forged, unique, and fun for both humans and zombies. Because right now, all I see out of Fat Kid games are ridiculous armories, long dumpster width hallways/mazes, crudely designed and forged layouts, and a long drawn out game, that would insult alot of kids in the world, and waste my time if I played it. First of all, I used Fat Kid as an example of what you don't see on Forge Hub, because our standards are higher and attract people who use some sort of thought process when making a map. I don't think I ever said anything like: "Well, you like Fat Kid, and that's a bad game variant." So, that whole statement is void. Geomerging is a technique used to make your map more clean and professional looking. Like I said before, our standards are higher. Geomerging is just another aspect of those standards, so we may keep a level of professionalism. What is the first thing people here say at maps without some of our Techniques? "NEEDZ MOAR INTERLOX ND GEOMERG!!!1!" You wouldn't get that on B.net. I don't. I just forge, but I use the techniques we have anyway. Not many forgers here check their every action and make sure it's up to our standards. They just forge. If you actually read (something not many people around here seem to do.) Sweeny never even spoke about his forging skill. He was merely stating that a hobo (the OP) wanted a perfect forge map, that catered to his every desire and that, because Bungie didn't make it that way, he was going to try to whine and complain here, in hopes that we would pity him. If you didn't decide to cry about Sandbox not catering to your specific needs,we wouldn't be having this discussion. Here's a thought: Why not appreciate the fact that you actually have Forge, instead of whining about how it's to not your specifications.
the way i see it is that now all nooby maps are on sandbox, and foundry ones are getting better and better
Oh please, sir, describe the irony in full tense. Lay it out for me. Obviously I'm missing something, yeh?
I would like to ask how many of you actually can code videogames. It's a bit hareder than an on off button. First of all, have you ever had your computer freeze because you were doing to many things on it at once. Well that is what happens to your xbox when you have any size death barriers and thousands of moveable objects. That is also why there is a budget. I am sure you have played the wonderful map Manifest. Really great map and all, except it is budget glitched and has a huge pile of moveable objects. Because of this it lags like hell when you start the game with a full party. Bungie put the budget there for a reason. Your xbox will blow up if you have unlimited objects, or to many moveable objects. Second, about the comments on bungie should hve done better, do you really think they are purposefully trying to piss us off. They know more about making fun games than you do, so i think what they say and do is a much better idea than what you propose. I mean look at sandbox. Are you telling me that sandbox has less going for it for forge than the other halo3 maps. Sandbox is much more than foundry was, so shutup. Lastly, I would like to adress the idea of square boxes and plain color items. Imagine foundry with squares in plain colors all over theplace. Better yet go into sketchup and with the shape tools, not the components, make a map. then look at it and tell me that it looks like a halo. It wont. it will look boring and will look a lot less like a halo map than sandbox apparently does. I will also mention, do you really think that making halo3 maps on the computer wil be easy. It is not if you want them to be more than white squares. Well that is all i have to say about that and i wish you good luck with making a wonderful foundry map. and i am not being sarcastic, i seriously would like to see another good foundry map. Au revoir
I'm well aware Sweeny didn't bring up his Forging skill. Maybe if you'd stop putting words in my mouth (something people around here seem to do a lot) you'd realize I brought it up to make a point. He is a damn good Forger. Damn good. It would not surprise me if he can geomerge items perfectly his first try. But the other 99% of us can't. One of Bungie's 'Showstoppers' for ATLAS is geomerging, obviously meaning that geomerging causes issues (thank you megathumbs). Geomerging should NOT be a necessity to make a map work fluently. And while no, I've never coded a video game, I would love for someone who does to show up and explain how it was easier to code the Crypt's walls as they are now, as opposed to if they were flat. I agree with you about the OP. We're not going to get a perfect Forge map. I can accept that. But if Bungie is going to make a map designed for the purpose of Forging, why not cater to the Forging community and fix these small anomalies? I'm sure if you had the option, you would use a wall that nades can't slip under, right? Because they wouldn't bother, they'd spam it with 1-star ratings. But like you said, that's the first thing people look for on here. Interlocking and geomerging. Such a ****ing elitist idea, that a map can't be good without it. Go back to the Lazy Mapmaker's Contest, and you tell me Zipline is not better than 80% of maps on this site (anyway).
What?! But those were the best parts! I mean, comparing you lot to a group of babies who want more candy was absolutely ingenious, and you're going to take that away from me? Then maybe you should waltz back into that Sandbox thread I mentioned, and just read the hopes that these "many people" actually had. Also, they are unreasonable for the same reason that Bungie stated in their recent update; many issues people have with forge are issues with forge itself and it's fundamental scripting, not the maps. Back when they first created Forge, it served it's perhaps just fine. They never foresaw it to grow into what it is now, so they never bothered creating the script to center around the creation of complete maps. They could fix this, but at a heavy price. Everything ever created in Forge, as well as anything ever having to do with Forge, would never work and become incompatible with the new Forge script. For the sake of myself, and the safety your brain, I should stop here. I should have stopped as soon as you considered an "Infinite Budget and Object Limit" a reasonable idea. However, I still move forward, even though I have every reason not to. 'Tis a shame that you won't be seeing this post as a courtesy, though. Now, before I indulge into the reasons that such a request is absurd, I should probably put things into retrospect: Foundry was "too small" and everyone ran out of items way too fast. Now people complain that Sandbox's middle tier is too small and they are still running out of items. Now that I think about it, I haven't really seen any "enclosed" maps made on Sandbox's Middle Tier yet. I wonder why this is?-Oh ya, that's why. Foundry had walls as a part of it's solid geometry, which could help block off people's maps with minimal item spending. The Middle Tier of Sandbox lacks such natural geometry, except for its hills and guardian towers, which clearly aren't "wall" material. But they still serve as a method to prevent players from wondering too far. If you were to make a GIGANTIC EMPTY CANVAS, look how small the maps would be. So small, in fact, that they would be smaller than current Foundry maps. Why? Because all of your items would go toward keeping players within the playing field. Adding an Infinite Budget and Object Limit would not help this problem, but only make things worse. Then people would continue to make the largest maps possible, subsequently causing loads of lag. Ever notice how breaking the budget if Foundry resulted in lag more times than not? The Budget and OLN are there for a reason, and are capped off at a certain amount for the same exact reason. This is why having a huge empty canvas is unreasonable. Believe it or not, Bungie put a lot more thought into that one than you did, and I thought they were the idiots here. Also, I just want to add that Forging is only a fraction of the Halo Community. Most people just play the game, and don't bother to ever venture into forge, let alone go in there with the intent to make a map. If Bungie had released a map with NOTHING to it but a haven for forgers, they would upset a large number of their fans. While we might get a full 3 maps for the price of 800 ms points, many people would feel as if they just paid 800 points for 2 maps. Think about other people, they exist. Many objects in Foundry had the same issues with grenades. Then again, I never saw this as much of an issue since I rarely ever got a grenade stuck in a crack, unless I was intentionally throwing a grenade there. Actually, there is a good point to make here; if you're grenade does not reach the spot you intended, that is your fault. Clearly the crack was not what you were aiming for; just as the hands of the first baseman were not where you were trying to hit the baseball. I really suggest you read Bungie's most recent Update. Here is a link, now there is no reason for not taking the time to actually read something. One of their engineers explains the reason behind Object's moving. With a bit of common sense and logic, it would then make sense as to why items have invisible barriers between them, preventing them from being flush with one another. Emphasis on, "with a bit of common sense and logic", not everyone seems to meet those requirements it appears. This is something you need to understand. It's time to think outside of the sandbox. Wow, give me a second... I have to go whip myself for having to use that pun. I'm back. Anyway, I have seen some Big Team Maps made in Sandbox. Utah Mambo can hold 6 on 6, which is technically considered a Big Team game. Also, I know someone who making a gigantic map in Sandbox currently, one that will exceed the size expectations anyone could imagine. So maybe you should start figuring out how these people are managing, and all you have accomplished is to go through an entire box of tissues. Actually, never mind, I think I know the very reason you have failed to make a map Sandbox, let alone a BTB one. Or maybe he is, and maybe you have won yourself a spot on the list right next to him. I mean, that statement alone truly shows your bountiful knowledge when it comes to the art of making a good map. Maybe I should stop insulting you, and instead take you out to eat; because I think you have just identified the very reason most forge maps suck. It seems that these days, no one even bothers playing Picasso, making their maps outstanding pieces of visual art. If everyone just made their maps as easy on the eyes as little daisies, maybe gameplay wouldn't have to be the strong points of these maps. Hell, maybe people would even focus on the map's pictures to determine whether or not they like it, for a change. Then people wouldn't waste their time downloading it in the first place, subsequently being forced to actually play the map instead of looking at it's walls for the duration of the round. Kid, you're onto something and I'll be sure to make a few phone calls. I foresee a bright future for Forgehub! EDIT: Some of you might have read the above, and thought to themselves "why is he even wasting his time?" I assure you, I've asked myself the same exact thing. The fact of the matter remains, no matter what I say these people will still be around, fussing about the same things until they realize that Bungie won't be doing anything about it, and that no one gives a ****. That could be awhile. So, why do I respond? For the same reason comedians make fun of politicians and cheerleaders, because I get laughs with little to no effort invested. I see that I have skipped a lot of posts, but like an old joke, this subject is becoming stale. So those who really want to continue this discussion with me, I suggest using PM's, because those I can delete ; )
I can code flash games :happy: Coding is actually really easy, however, fixing a code mistake can be extremely troublesome. And you get a lot of mistakes. I like sandbox. However I have only one idea for it at the moment, and its going to blow my mind if I finish it.
I must say, that was an amazing rant... completely flawless. Anway, I cut it down to the fun list of things that were wrong with foundry. It's amazing how ungrateful people can be.. sure I myself take things for granted sometimes, but I never ask more of what is given to me. I never ask for an allowance raise, I never ask for a car, the only thing I have persistently asked for is my provisional liscense. Hell, I even help pay the rent because it makes my parents lives easier. And yes, he did essentially compare you to children. Bungie represents your parents, and you are the helpless child with no job. You whine in the corner, and Bungie rushes to make you happy. YOU should be happen that Bungie is not abusive like some other game developers I know.. So please, take what you have and be happy with it, I know I am.. and I'm almost finished with a H2 remake I'm entering in the competition. It will make all the previous remakes to shame, I guarantee you that already. But that's not it.. no. I did all of it in the sky bubble.. DEALING with the horrible uneven objects, but the best part is that when you walk across them.. they give the same exact effect as walking across double boxes in foundry.