Legal Advice Please!

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by X5, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. X5

    X5 Ancient
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    Any spam, comments without fully understanding the situation, insults, tl:dr's, etc. will not be tolerated and infracted out-right. This is a very serious issue, and all I ask is serious help. If you don't have anything to really contribute, just move on and don't post.


    Alright, some of you might have read my blog post in which I described the recent events of my life within the past month in particular. However, the main topic I wish to address is the final bit of my blog in regards to my younger brother. For those who have not read (and even those who have), let me re-summarize the incident, and then proceed to explain how this relates to my asking of help.

    I have two younger brothers, one who's 13 (Jesse) and one who is 10 (Justyn). They both go to a charter school known as Katrina Country Day School, and have been going there for a couple years now. During their time there, they have created quite the reputation for themselves. This is because they are very physically active in the sports of BMX and Motocross, and are all around viewed as the "cool kids". However, do not let such a description fool you about my brothers' personalities. They are both very peaceful (Jesse in particular) and are some of the most compassionate around. This is due to them growing up with diseases and spending a lot of time with other children with other learning impediments and other handicaps. They are by no means perfect, but when they act out it is rare and un-severe.

    Last Wednesday during recess, the children of my brother Jesse's class were playing basketball. This one boy (his name now evades me) was attempting to steal the ball (as in intercept, not actually steal). This boy is known to be to have bi-polar personality and because of his rapidly changing moods he has been known to unleash onto other children and restrained. Well, at this moment the kid randomly started to rapidly scratch at my brother and assault him. My brother tried to shove him off, but he would not stop. So, in self defense, my brother punched him in the face. This punch managed to break the kid's glasses into his eyebrow, and knock him out when he hit the ground.

    Both the boy and my brother were sent home for the day, but beyond that it was viewed as a mutual conflict. Until a day later. On Thursday we discovered that the boy (I think his name is Greg, so I'll just call him that) had just underwent 2 hours of reconstructive surgery. Hence, the family of Greg notified both my family and the school that we are being sued for $1,000,000. Freaking out, the school expelled my brother outright and immediately took sides with Greg's family hoping to avoid the flames (now, this is speculation but I don't think I am stretching things all that much). What once was a semi-non event turned into a big deal instantly.

    However, we were for the most part unphaped. My family immediately called the cops to file a criminal report of self defense, and scheduled to see a doctor to examine my brother's hands to prove that it could not have delivered such a hard blow intentionally. On top of that we contacted teacher's and parents to voice their opinions about Greg and his bi-polar behavior and previous history of starting conflicts. It was a moment of worry, but we knew what we had to do.

    The police first said that there was no need to file a criminal case in a mutual conflict (which to them this appeared to be) However, my family got to speak to an officer who looked things over and said we should have nothing to fear, our case was far more solid than the other kids. However, we could not file a report of any sorts since it happened on the school's campus, therefore the school had to file the report. Something also happened with the doctor's (probably feeling that the need to spend money we don't have on such an issue was ridiculous). But nothing could have prepared us for what came next.

    On Monday we discovered that Greg's family had not gone through with filing a suet, but instead something far worse. They filed a criminal case of assault (I am fairly certain it is assault). Now my brother Jesse is in danger of getting arrested, or at the very least have a black mark on his Junior record that could haunt him for life. Well, no family stepped up to aid our cause. We consulted the school to see the records detailing Greg's past offenses, but now, all of a sudden, they never existed in the first place. Everywhere we turned people denied helping us. Today a detective came to interview my brother, but my mom denied them entry because a lawyer we consulted to not allow the cops speak to him at this time.

    This lawyer we consulted told us we are going to need a top of the line lawyer, because now the odds are against us, and are not aided by an ass of a detective hounding our case. The thing is, we don't have nearly enough money to hire a decent lawyer, and anything less appears to not cut it. We once again tried to get children tell their side of the story but have received no calls back from the parents. It is really important we get to the children, because since Day 1 they have been against the school for expelling my brother because they all like him very much. If this detective gets them in a secluded room and presses down on them, they will crack under the pressure and say words that the detective can easily manipulate. This man is hired to prove my brother guilty, and when dealing with 13 and under year-olds it is almost like taking candy from a baby.

    Therefor I have reached the decision that starting now I will do everything in my power to clear my brother's name and wreak hell on those who started this. I may be no lawyer, and I only have a sophomore education (well, closer to that of a senior's actually, but not technically), but I do have extremely developed speaking skills, and I have motivation. I am prepared to fully exercise my civilian rights. I am also prepared to play under-handedly to get the truth I seek. I care very much for every member in my family, and especially my younger brothers. I might not see them often and I may feel like I have let them down as an older brother, but there is no way in hell that I am going to let this pass. I don't care about redemption or getting even as long as my brother is free of this horse ****.

    So this is where you, FH, come in. After I submit this thread I am immediately going to start searching everywhere I can for legal advice. I am going to learn my legal boundaries that I can operate in. However, the Internets is full of intelligent and knowledgeable people, and any leads would be great. For what I am looking for in particular at this moment:

    • Tomorrow the detective will be going to the school (and Friday as well) to interview students. I plan to be there myself, getting the truth and the support of as many people I can. The school will try and turn me away, I know it. They have done a GREAT job helping my family through this /sarcasm. So I need to know if I have the legal ability to go there. If I get stopped I would like some legal evidence to through in their face. Also, is it in the student's power to deny an interview with the detective? If so, I might be able to successfully sabotage his investigation by reaching these children first.
    • Similar cases to this one, and their results. Deciding factors and other forms of information would be great.
    • The extent of filing criminal cases in regards to school related issues. We were told that only the school could file such reports, but the other family somehow managed.
    • My goal is to discredit Greg, his family, and the situation. Exploiting his bi-polar behavior and past offenses, and his family's own issues (other families have said that Greg's family are somewhat odd. How I don't know, but intend to find out), and showing the ridiculous of taking such a case to such an extreme level.
    • Not being a lawyer, and only a high school brother could take away from my case, or add to it. You know as well as I (I hope) that I am fighting this hard because of the truth and the fact that my brother is getting treated unfairly here. So, I am going to also attract the sympathy vote. My brother is 13 here, and such a unjust black mark will forever put him in a bad light. He may get denied by schools and go without a proper education, he could be denied jobs in the future, and many other things. So I am looking for a good way to create a sympathy vote. Hell, statistics on children growing up to be serial killers do to bullshit sentences would be accepted.
    • Anything. Any advice you can offer I will accept. I might be stepping out of my league but I'll keep up, I have to.

    So please, any help would be appreciated, and ASAP as well since I will need to move as soon as tomorrow morning quite possibly. I hate dumping issues in my life on the interwebz, they don't have the greatest history in helping people, but I all the help I can get I will gladly take.
     
    #1 X5, Apr 15, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2009
  2. Y35 <3

    Y35 <3 Ancient
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    It should not matter that your brother did this to another kid. I don't know why the lawyers don't see this, but I'm pretty sure the right to self defense is given to you at birth /duh.
    Anyway, I'm not 100% positive, but under 18 I think I've heard that its 2 punches. So, if your in a fight, and two punches get thrown [Or anything equivalent to this] then its your legal right to fight back. Since this kid was repeatedly scratching your brother in a harmful manner then your brother has the right to fight back.

    Also, your brother cant go to jail, not at this point, so if worse comes to worse he will have to serve some time as time comes when he is 18. If anything, tell your parents to take your brother to the hospital to look at all of his scratches and/or anything that may have been done to him during this incident. If anything, i mean anything, is noticeable then you should push to sue right back. If enough evidence is seen, the other family may realize the situation and drop the case.

    What is it your brother is being sued for exactly?
    And, is this on the internet somewhere? maybe your local newspaper.
     
  3. AceOfSpades

    AceOfSpades Talented
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    Assault is described as:
    1. The apparent, present ability to carry out;
    2. An unlawful attempt;
    3. To commit a violent injury;
    4. Upon another.

    I interpret this as someone purposely trying to cause harm to someone. You brother, as stated by you, was just defending himself and did not mean to cause any major harm to the boy with bi-polar disease. If you can get any of the other kids present at the school to tell the officers/detective that your brother punched the kid because of self-defense, then it obviously wasn't intentional.

    Hope that helps and I hope your brother's name gets cleared. This is pretty ridiculous.
     
    #3 AceOfSpades, Apr 15, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2009
  4. Psycho

    Psycho Ancient
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    Definitely get to the kids the lawyer will be speaking to. Convince them to help you and if they are true friends of your brother, they should help. I'm sure they wouldn't want their good friend to go to jail.

    This was self-defense. Does the lawyer know that the other kid was assaulting your brother?

    I wish you and your family the best of luck.

    EDIT: Have you tried talking to the parents of the kids playing basketball? They might help.
     
    #4 Psycho, Apr 15, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2009
  5. RadiantRain

    RadiantRain Ancient
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    Source is there.

    Legal Definition of Self-Defense Defense
     
  6. SargeantSarcasm

    SargeantSarcasm In Loving Memory
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    do you have pictures of your brother's scratches/injuries?
     
  7. Shock Theta

    Shock Theta Father of 4chub
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    and a doctor's report?

    Acquire them at all costs if you can.
     
  8. SargeantSarcasm

    SargeantSarcasm In Loving Memory
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    yeah, in case eyewitness testimony is out of the question (as in you cant get any) these'll be your primary sources of credible evidence.
     
  9. X5

    X5 Ancient
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    I'll be looking into the 2 punch advice. It could definitely aid the case, because the kid had repeatedly attempted to scratch my brother, as well as other kids involved in the basket ball game.

    Very good information. If I can get confessions from the classmates and witnesses that indeed Jacob (turns out it wasn't Greg) had thrown the first "punch" I could follow up with the 4 terms of Assault.

    Like I said, my family attempted to contact families but have gotten no reply. And I am pretty sure that this case is now in state hands, meaning that the detective on the case was hired by the state to investigate for the opposition. So I am not sure if I can convince him to "join us". In fact, I was planning on making no verbal contact with the man (men) for legal reasons. Anything I say before having the proper representation of a lawyer can be used to impeach our testimony.

    Very useful. I am reading it currently.

    @ Shock and Sarge
    Like I said, my parents were supposed to get a doctors report but failed to do so for reasons unknown to me. Unfortunately, what marks he did have are since healed since it has been nearly a week. However, I will attempt to see what I can get. But for now, it looks like I have to trust statements and such to support my case (or the case of a lawyer should we hire one.)

    Thanks for the help thus-far. As it stands if I can get multiple statements from witnesses that Jacob had tried to repeatedly scratch my brother Jesse, I could fairly easily invalidate the claim of Assault under the rights of use for self-defense and the necessary requirements to qualify as assault. Also, at first I thought that this is something that could be used against us but maybe can be used in our favor.

    My brother does BMX and race motocross, both of which are physically endearing and build up the upper body muscles, primarilly the arms. In the case of Assault, one has to have intent to inflict severe harm. Well, being that my brother is naturally stronger do his lifestyle, he mistakenly exerted more force than intended into the punch. Not sure if I could go off this, but it is a thought.
     
  10. XxSpix

    XxSpix Ancient
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    This is what I'm getting so far.


    I'll look for more
     
  11. Nemihara

    Nemihara Ancient
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    Start up a Facebook group. Or any sort of online petition where you can get momentum going, pressuring/persuading the fellow students to help your case. You'll want to explain your situation in detail.

    That's not legal per say, but it might help get some witnesses to testify. If someone like me is moved by just one blog post, imagine how many people in your community would. Have your neighbors talk about your brother, too.

    You could try to push "Greg's" violent bipolar nature in the court room. If he acts out heavily in front of the jury, it'll discredit their case heavily.
     
    #11 Nemihara, Apr 16, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2009
  12. Monolith

    Monolith Ancient
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    I wouldn't suggest doing anything that may make anybody feel threatened. I'd say stay put, and hope for the best at this point. It's not really worth risking it all... but if you're willing to find any laws that may help you, then go ahead... just make sure everything's accurate and truthful.

    Hope you guys make it out of this mess.
     
  13. Mastar

    Mastar Ancient
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    If you want you could try talking to the bi polar kid's parents and see if they can chill the **** out and take a look at the big picture and understand that it was pretty much all an accident.

    Wow.. America is rather crazy XD

    A couple weeks ago.. my 14 year old little brother was messing around with his friends at school at lunchtime and some kid kicked him square in the nuts because he knew my brother wouldn't react (my brother is a nice friendly kid even though he could kick the assess of most of the kids in his year) so then my brother was kinda of angry.. then this kid grabbed my brothers shoes from on the ground and put them in the bin, so my brother finally decided to retalliate and chased after him.. '

    My brother was chasing right behind him and tried to punch him in the back, just as the kid turned around. My brother's fist caught the kid right in the mouth. Knocking out two teeth. Now the kid has to get a root canal and all this ****.

    No legal jibber jabber has ensued. Seriously, what parents try and get an assault charge on 14 year old kids??
    My parents are going to help out with some of the dental fees.
    That's that.

    Gee wizz, that bi polar kid's parents are over protective pricks.



    So yeah anyways.. talk to the kids at the school. Get doctors report/evidence etc. etc. (DUDE YOU SHOULD TOTALLY WEAR A WIRE) anyways this post is rather scrambled but you get the idea... (you probably don't but w/e =/ )

    Good luck with all this man, it should all turn out okay.
     
  14. Shock Theta

    Shock Theta Father of 4chub
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    Coupled with his age, and if you can get testimonies that he has never been involved in any violent incidents beforehand, you can argue that it is completely unreasonable to assume that the damage he inflicted was the result of an intentional act. His lack of any prior experience in defending himself, and the situation he found himself in - being suddenly accosted by a fellow classmate with a history of random aggression and irrational behaviour - clearly causing feelings of confusion and stress, led to the inevitable conclusion of exerting more force than was intended. You have to be very careful here though that you don't admit that he used excessive force.

    I'd also consider making suggestions of countersuits against the school for damages as a result of stress induced by their unfair treatment of your brother and resulting issues of damage to finances and personal reputation, even if you don't have the money to actually follow through. You need to show that your brother is a victim here, not just a defendant.
     
  15. X5

    X5 Ancient
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    My parents are divorced and my brother's live with my mom. So the neighbors at my dad's don't even know them, and the neighbor's at my mom's are all elderly and only know of the general kindness of our family.
    As for pushing this kid Jacob to act out, I would not quite know how to accomplish this. He isn't diagnosed to be bi-polar for what we know, but he does randomly act out, without any known triggers. I can't appear to be antagonizing him in any way, or else I myself can be in trouble for verbal assault.
    Well I didn't, I'm at school now. I searched for a long time and could not find anything on my civilian rights in such an issue. But I sure as hell wish I had, because it turns out that it is not 10 days from now, it's 10 days from the incident that happened 9 days ago. Tomorrow they can arrest my brother if they so wish. Technically they can't, but with our ****ed up legal system anything is possible.

    I completely agree. When I was in elementary school, these two kids physically teamed up on me during Recess because I was the school "push-over". I ended up kicking their ass, but I could have pressed charges. We didn't because that would be stupid. People fight, kids fight, it just happens as is our natured (even recognized by law), so ruining a family and a child's life over such a pointless issue is just... I cannot describe in words how it makes me feel.

    Yes, it is very important to make sure to not mention excessive force because that will invalidate self-defense. However, I plan to only use that argument if my current one is not withstanding.

    Assault is the intention or threat to use violence. battery is the actual use of this violence. In this case, my brother never threatened to use violence against Jacob. It was only until Jacob began his attack upon my brother that he used violence in defense of himself. In a case of aggravated assault, one must have 1) the apparent, present ability to carry out an unlawful attempt 3) to commit a violent injury 4) upon another. This is considered a felony, and involves the permanent disfigurement of the victim. Such injuries would be the loss of limbs for example. Jacob only sustained injuries to his skull, that have since been mended through surgery, therefore an impermanent injury. Therefore, the claim of assault does not apply to my brother in this case. However, this fight was not consensual, so the only remaining conclusion was that Jacob had assaulted my brother, who proceeded to defend himself. EDIT: I am home so I can continue now. The first and most obvious move to disqualify the act of self defense would to say that Jacob's "scratching" was only to get the basketball, and that Jesse over-reacted. However, my brother had already passed the ball out of his possession to a fellow team mate, and Jacob persisted. According to the terms of self defense, it is the duty of the person threatened to use all prudent and precautionary measures to prevent the attack; which passing the ball is adequately fits as a method of prevention. It then states that, if after having taken such proper precautions, a party should be assailed, he may undoubtedly repel force by force, but in most instances cannot, under the pretext that he has been attacked, use force enough to kill the assailant or hurt him after he has secured himself from danger. Seeing as my brother neither killed Jacob, no did he "kick him while he was down", he is well within his right to defend himself. However, person must use no more force than appears reasonably necessary in the circumstances; which the opposition will more than likely argue that knocking a child out as well as breaking a portion of the skull is definitely applying more force than necessary. This would be a problem, if my brother had indeed caused such injury himself, but he did not. When he punched the child in the face, he broke Jacob's glasses and sent the kid stumbling back. Losing his balance, Jacob landed face first on the concrete court, causing him to go unconscious and subsequently causing the damage that was done to his eye. Therefore, my brother's punch was not the direct cause of the full extent of Jacob's injury, so he did not exert more force than necessary. (I just read this to my father, who was at first pessimistic about such a point, but now agrees that this is a good case)

    As for counter suet, is there a way to imply that we are prepared to go to those extents without making appear to be blackmail?
     
    #15 X5, Apr 16, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2009
  16. Shock Theta

    Shock Theta Father of 4chub
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    That looks like a great defence to be honest. Stick to those points, keep things clear and simple, and I'd expect it to stand up.

    You don't want to threaten anybody. However, simply stating that you will be considering all avenues of legal recourse against involved parties, including the governing body of the school and any other liable persons, is perfectly acceptable.
     
  17. EpicFishFingers

    EpicFishFingers Ancient
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    Well I don't take law, but it certainly interests me. And in case you don't already know, I have bad news for you I'm afraid:

    In Britain we don't sue each other. The reason being because our legal system is based on the idea of "innocent until proven guilty". In America however, this is the other way around. So you need to find some hard evidence that this kid started it.

    I don't think saying that because he's a retard will 1) help or 2) hold up. His actions could be unpredictable, but the parents could use his condition completely to their advantage. They could say that your brother was bullying him.

    So I hope you are not here today to read this because you are at this school and are getting to these kids before this detective does what he's payed to do. You need eyewitnesses. I'm assuming this school has no form of CCTV too? Because if you can get into the school and steal tapes that may have captured the event then that would be perfect and you could easily get away with breaking into the school if the evidence pays off. Think of it as taking the bullet.

    I also believe that they don't have the right to force these kids into an interview. Tell them that and none of them will do it. Tell them he is biased, tell them it will be boring. Anything to stop that guy twisting their words.

    Also, if you file a written report, use a spellchecker. Your speech is very powerful, but in this post you spelt "throw" as 'through', along with other spelling mistakes.
     
  18. Whisper

    Whisper Ancient
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    I'm pretty sure that you or your lawyer or someone can be there to watch when the detective interviews the kids.
     
  19. xxAl Capwnagexx

    xxAl Capwnagexx Ancient
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    Whoever is in charge at the school is an idiot and is looking for a lawsuit. Schools are not supposed to take sides in a fight. In fact, the school should know of Jacobs past problems and seen what the situation really is. Good luck with these idiots.

    Also, in America it is not guilty until proven innocent.

    My dad is a principal and is familiar with school legal jargon, I'll see what he says
     
  20. Vinny

    Vinny Ancient
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