Kon Artist's forge tips-- from start to finish (with respawn algorithm)

Hi everyoneâ€â€My name is Ryan aka Kon Artist for those that don’t know me-- Im not to bad at Forging or Halo, and I have created a few treads on MLGpro to help other forgers make good maps and then play great. So I have been play halo for CE, and in forge I have created a couple of mapsâ€â€Nightshift, Exile and NOC. All made for competitive play. The following is a few tips to get started and a detail explanation on adding depth to your spawning system in symmetrical arena style maps.

The Basics--

1. Map design-When making a new map in Halo 3 I believe you should take the following into consideration- First off the short range combat system in Halo 3 has issues, however I disagree with most people in what the main issue is- the main issue in the melee system isn’t the health, but the fact that beat downs have so much auto aim. So in short range combat situation it becomes very difficult to separate skill level--in short MLG style maps should favor mid- long range combat were raw skill, teamwork and strategy dominate.
2. Take your time--line things up objects. (forge is not easy to use)
3. Balance high and low ground, lower elevations should have more cover--higher elevation should have less cover, due to the topographical advantage.
4. power ups and power weapons should be dangerous to acquire but be worth risks.
5. ins and outs--the map should encourage map control and team movement, there are multiple ways through the map, from strong point to strong point.
6. when your done building, put a little extra time into placing spawns so things run smoothly.

Advanced.

7. Object glitch for smoothness-- ex. tigs chilly v3.
8. respawn algorithm- ex below

In H3 as many have found out --it is pretty easy to predict respawn areas, the reason is-- the game thinks the best place to re spawn is the furthest away form the opponents. This becomes a problem is small symmetrical maps like Exile. ex. In H2H when you kill someone from top of ?B? base, they will most likely respawn at ?A? base. This has been fixed by adding a respawn algorithm, so that spawns are very difficult to predict.

What is a respawn algorithm and instruction on making them. A set of ordered steps for solving a problem, such as a mathematical formula or the instructions in a program. The terms algorithm and logic are synonymous. Both refer to a sequence of steps to solve a problem. However, an algorithm implies an expression that solves a complex problem rather than the overall input-process-output logic of typical business programs.

How to make complicate repsawns.

1. in forge, select a game type--slayer, ctf, koth, ball, etc
2. select spawners (6 of 7) - and select respawn area.
3. Place the first respawn area marker in the center of your map, make it neutral, and spawn order is 1
4. Place 2 respawn area maker somewhere else on the map--order

Now to spawn kill you must memorize all the respawn areas, and the order of the respawn area with respect to how many kills there have been. This help out in small symmetrical map like Exile, b/c it make it harder to predict were your opponent(s) will respawn.

On Exile FFA 2.3 I have added 8 spawning area modifiers, that brake up the map, and some that include the whole playing area. Hopefully this fixes any issue with spawn camping and now Exile will be even more fun the play H2H, 2v2, and FFA.

Now-- I have used respawn algorithm on both Exile and Nightshift, I think you will find that your maps will become better and more fun to play when less spawn camping. Hope this helps those that are just starting to male maps in forge and those that just needed to make the spawn system work. I hope to see more great maps after this thing is over, b/c bungie H3 arn't all that good. If anyone has question on how to make respawn algorithm ask...

Ok so a more details on how to make spawning algorithm.

1. select game type- slayer, ctf, koth, ball
2. select spawning area
3. place first spawning modifier in center of map and mark as 1 in spawning area order
4. create your algorithm

you don’t just place spawning area modifiers “randomly� around the map and label them with a order 1-8.
First you have to find a set of number that are non repeating, like PHI or PI
Write your log sequence. Like soâ€â€
X, Y, location of center of respawn area modifier, Then Height, length, depth of respawn area modifier. Then the distance to the location to the next respawn area modifier in relationship to the one that preceded before.

Ex. Using PI witch is also non repeating

3.1415926535 8979323846 2643383279 5028841971 6939937510 5820974944 5923078164 0628620899 8628034825 3421170679 8214808651 3282306647 0938446095 5058223172 5359408128 4811174502 8410270193 8521105559 6446229489 5493038196

Ok so theres truly a random sequence of numbers, and more then enough numbers to write your own respawn log

So to make it easy to follow what to do I will just start using the number after the decimal point. Grab a piece of paper and make a spread sheet that has the follow in this order. X, Y, Top, Length, Width

So the first spawning area modifier goes in center, then select it, change its values to find were the next spawning area modifier goes. Ok, X = 1. Y = 4 so change the length and width on you 1st spawning area to 1x6. then pick a corner, this is the spot where spawning area 2 goes.

Spawning area top get values for height, length and width, those are 1,5,9. write that down. B/c right now you want to find the next location, spawning area 3. to do this repeatâ€â€X= 2, Y=6…. Goes 1-8, then go back and give the right values for each respawn area.

Now if you just go X, Y, b/t each respawn point you are going to create a diagonal line roughly. So b/t each respawn location turn 90 degrees in any direction, left or right, just do it the same b/t each placement. This will make the respawning area overlap and stay in map. For some reason you next spawning point is out of map. Place it back in center on top of point 1.

Sorry I’m not the best at explaining things, DL Exile 2.4 and go into forge mode and change game type to slayer or ball, or koth. You will see all the spawning area that I put in, and the different size fields that they control.

Now… Just b/c you have the spawning area and set order you are not limited to respawn in those set areas only. I believe the system goes through the possibilities in order to find the safest place to respawn. I am not sure exactly how spawning system works, but what I do know is this lead to randomized spawning. Hopefully this more detail explanation will help those that are having problems setting spawns-- Specifically those that have symmetrical maps.

 

RE: That's quite a mouthful for your first post. I'm glad someone decided to try and help the community when they got here instead of just posting maps and asking for bumps and downloads.

Don’t need toâ€â€my maps are well known, like Exile voted best 1v1 map on MLGpro

RE: Based on this topic, you might want to check out The Reverse Engineering Research Team Findings thread. They've been working on spawns too. Also, you might like the What makes a good map discussion.

I will look in to that

RE: As far as your spawning algorithm, I don't understand why you needed to use Pi. First you stated that we should not place respawn areas around randomly, and then you suggest that we input numbers from a random sequence. Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks like you just wanted to show off how many places you know Pi to.

What I meant by placed randomly is thisâ€â€spawn area 1 center, um spawn area 2 over here for no reason. Even if the forger thinks its random its not. The reason you use PHI or PI is b/c they are both numbers that have non repeating digits. B/c the number sequence is non repeating, the respawning area created and spawns in the game will never form a pattern. As far as showing off? Don’t need to, I am very good at the game and probably one of the best if not considered the best map designer by the competitive community. (check MLGpro if you like)

RE: Also, how detailed have your tests been? I've always been curious how the "spawn order" worked. Does the number represent preferences or is it a sequence? In other words, after someone spawns in area 1, will they respawn in area 2 even if it is found to be dangerous, or does the game always prefer lower numbers?

As far as I know the spawning order is it preference in order. Meaning if you died twice and area 2 is clean you will respawn in that area. If not you move to 3.

RE: Also, just to play devil's advocate, isn't the current spawn system better than random? Sure, it's predictable, but it ensures that you respawn somewhere safe. With your method, the enemy won't be able to predict where I'm going to respawn, but if I pop up right in front of him he won't need to predict it.

Are you kidding? How is predictable safe? Predictable leads to spawn camping. Spawning snipe, spawning nads. The spawning system also takes into account the location of the enemy.

So neways- again I hope this is helpful to someone else that like to make maps.

 

ok I'll try to answer a few things, but it will be short b/c I'm at work and bloging on an iPhone isnt that much fun. Anyone that finds thus post helpful-- use it. That is way I posted it here, to help others. Um regarding post exile or my other maps-- I thought you had to have 100 post before you could. But I guess not. I found this site pretty late yesterday-- and think its great. Maybe I'll put them up later today.

 

So what your saying is that you think that I’m talking out of my ass? This is a theory of spawn placement and modification that I developed. Now if you don’t find it useful don’t use it. If it was completely bs-- way on earth would the admin have it still listed under useful treads?

My take is that most people here don’t really understand what I’m taking about, sorry I’m not a veteran forum novelist. I see that some of the terms that I have used in my spawn theory are a little foreign to some and they find it hard to understand.

In layman terms then. Spawning areas brake up the map in a preferred order. The placement and size of these spawning area modifiers is determined using a mathematical equation. Now I don’t believe that this is a necessary thing in all maps. I stated above that I used it in my small symmetrical map entitled Exile.

Now someone has pointed out that Exile has a small spawning modifier that covers no spawns. Answer no one will spawn there. Understand that random placement and random configuration on height, width, and length are determined by numbers—not what looks good. So if you don’t think it works again, don’t use it. However again I test exile with no modifiers and like clockwork the player spawns as far away as possible. I tested it again in H2H with the spawning modifiers.

Player 1 top A tower, Player 2 top B. The test went to 50 and never did the player spawn in a predicable pattern.

So again if you don’t understand state it! I just don’t understand how you can say something is a bunch of hot air that works. Again if it was at all helpful, why wouldn’t the admin take it off his list of helpful trades?