The Underbog

Honestly, this map is one of the best maps you have made so far. The base structure is so complex and so neatly done. I wish I had your forging skills. Also looks like a nice CTF or Team Slayer map too. Very nice job and I hope to see another one of your maps soon!

 

Earlier today I had a forge through and 1v1 against Linu. 1v1 works very well on Underbog, the rockets were a little powerful but thats only because it was 1v1. I can imagine them to play well with atleast 4 people. Most of the structures weren't amazing, but the were very well made. The grav lift works perfectly. I don't think I went across a single bump in the objects.

The weapon and layout.
A beam rifle, it was a good choice, I don't think that the sniper rifle would of worked as well. Mainly because of underbogs Assymetric layout.
The Br's were placed well, most of the time I spawned within a few steps of a BR. I like this because you won't get screwed over when you come across the guy that just killed you with the rockets or sniper.

I personally don't think that Underbog is your best map, Ramparts is my favorite. I will be back with more info when I play a game of 4v4 TS, ctf and hill

Wanna get something to eat someday? I'm free this weekend.

 

Heyyyy

I enjoyed playing this map. We played one flag a bit. Twas fun. I love the blue flag spawn/base Its got a great feel to it, the way that it twists upwards kinda in the way you get to the flag.

I also like the other structures of the map, how they encourage players to not just stay by the flag camping it but instead.. Moving out to the rest of the map to control different points, therefore protecting the flag from different angles and higher ground. A good example of this would be the one in the fourth picture. It's to the left of blue flag base. I like that. I found a good tactic was to use grenades and one of the 6 sexy Battle Rifles to hang out in said structure to the left of blue base and take out enemy flag stealing scumbags as they go for the flag, with a team mate helping from down on the ground, and another from that Sign A place. [5th picture down] the other team ain't gettin' that flag anytime soon.

I would also like to mention that the numerous walls interlocked into double boxes to provide a little step up and the dumpsters on the ground floor give players easy access to the different levels of the map. which I think is a great touch as it can be really frustrating when you can't get to higher ground and the enemy is controlling it [the higher ground]

The interlocking and geo merging implemented is beautiful, you went that extra distance to prevent grenades slipping under the boxes, I commend you for that.

Looks like some bloody tough Geo Merging at red flag base there too by the way, and all over the map for that matter....

I really really liked the Center Mid Structure, its a great place for both close combat, and long range. But most of all, the placing of that shield door... Perfect. Usually I don't really like shield doors because I'm not a fan of close combat and they look ugly. But the way your one is placed... it just fits.
It provides some cover so long as there's not an enemy behind you too, and can bring in some intense scenarios, all while maintaining the flow of movement and gameplay throughout the map. It also stops grenades from getting through to under the center structure from anyone on that angle, this means that grenade spamming is greatly reduced in this area, giving players in there a bit of a chance because it sucks when you just get taken out by grenades and there is nowhere to take cover. But its not TOO safe from grenades, those Fusion Coils spice it up a bit, that was a good touch right there ;]
AND the shield door manages to look sexy somehow. I usually think they're ugly >.<

Here comes my mean criticism, I don't really like the red flag base... The merging and interlocking is excellent, but I just find it a little awkward to get into, I know there's a lift and you can jump to it from the ledge with the Fusion Coils on it. But I just don't feel the flow into it.. its hard to describe. Those fusion coils are exciting though =D

All in all, a snazztastic map. You hath done extremely well, this map will stay on my hard drive.

P.S, I like your use of Recon armor in the pictures to promote the map ;D

Oh and I wana see you try a symmetrical competitive map next
​

 

Triple post=Fail.

I have a question. What technique do you use for geo-merging? The door and teleporters technique? Or the spawn a double box while you're holding the object and save and quit after it pushes the object into the ground/wall technique? Cause whatever you're using works really well.

 

Wow Bl00D F1R3 this was one of the best maps i have ever played.

First lets start out with the aesthetics.
The geo merging, made the aesthetics really good. Like the bunker with geo merging wall doubles. You made that great. Also the interlocking added a great part to the aesthetics. Something i really like is the middle. This is one of the greatest aesthetics i have seen.

Also Interlocking and Geo merging.
The interlockinh was incredible, alot of perfect things interlocked. I dont have much. to say for interlocking. But the greatest geo merging was used for this map. Some objects were pushed so low into the ground and sow far into the wall, which takes alot of skill. Also there is perfect geo merging all around the map.

Gamplay:
Well i helped Bl00D F1R3 test this map, and it was the best gamplay i have ever played. All the object placement halped the gamplay alot, its alot of fun. Everything good in this, there was no unfair spawns it was all perfect.

Map Reveiwer:
Overall:5/5
Aesthetics:5/5
Geo Merging:5/5
Interlocking:5/5
Gamplay:5/5

 

Ah, yes, Underbog... I remember being a part of two test games... I can honestly say that from what I've played I like it. Sure, it's not as pretty as your other maps, but I've been noticing how you've been leaning more towards gameplay now. Which is good (and I'm not saying your other maps didn't play well, it's just they've been slowly increasing in gameplay, but decreasing in aesthetics). That isn't really a bad thing, in as gameplay is a step above looks in my book... I'll play a game on this version and get back to you. (because if I based my review off of that last one, I'd have to say "fix teh spawnzorz"... when you most-likely already did).

 

I'm glad you could use my bunker idea into the map without doing the exact same thing I did. Btw, this is a great map, it looks like it'd play really smooth. AmercanPsycho, the slanted geo merging supposed to be some sort of a bunker-themed base thing, from when I built it. If you need any help on that I could give you a tutorial. Or you could go to bloodfire's amazing forge school on youtube. Blood, it seems you've already got a ton of attention on the map already, and it deserves it. This is a huge improvement from the first version you were working on, not that the first was bad, but I like the overall theme of this one better. I also noticed you geo merged pretty much everything. I'll hope to see some more original stuff from you in the future, goodluck. 5/5 for aesthetics, I don't do gameplay nymoar .

 

Bl00d! awesome most kickass map ive seen from you. knowing you made it i knew this map had to be good. it looks like you did a fantastic job with the interlocking on here. you got the boxes down into the ground super far(i can never get it like that). i must say from the pictures i like the diagonal curved arch ways, it gives the map a great asthetic value. im gonna check it out and get back to you. 5/5.....for now, lol.

 

This map is awesome and is queued to download. The aethetics look brilliant and even though the layout might not be too original, what you have done you have done really well. Good work, Blood fire. 4/5

 

Needs moar inerlocking...How mad would you be?
Dude the map is awesome. what I love about it and all the maps you make are the unique structures in it. I love seeing awkward buildings like in the second picture and the geomerging is very impressive. I'm looking forward to getting a game going on here. You did it again.

 

I have to say Bl00d ... You really out-did yourself on this map... I mean... Its absolutely gordeus and fun to play on... I LOVE this map.But you should invite me to your games more often... Although you do its probably my fault because im like never at my house..

 

This map r kewl n stuf 5/5 lawl

 

wowzerz.... this map came out nicer than i thought, and the gameplay is awsome cuz i was testin it with u =3

asthetically other maps could outdo this map by far, but what i love is that you focus so much on gameplay that the maps are like the "hidden talent" people that you ca only see the real meaning if you look deep


unfortunatly the map is escapable, but i think you could fix it later, with just an extra fence wall or so.

but once outside the map, your at a serious advantage cuz of the warthogs that can rape whatever they see.

 

Cool looking map - good interlocking - great size - you have good skills - pictures very big on my pc - not played yet but i will - got my download - 9/10 for the map altogether

 

ok, so im back and ive gotta say that this is an awesome map! i played it all day yesterday and it was fun as hell. the gameplay was good as well as the asthetics. this is one of the only maps in halo i think that can pull off having a shield door in it. i normally dont like maps with them in it. so good job, i think this is one of youre best maps. still 5/5!

 

This got posted and i missed it where the help did this come in... i was on here ALL week... wow this is nice typical bl00d f1r3 map... glad this finally got posted i tested the old version of this the first one be4 u deleted everything and im glad u changes it to this... interlocking is EPICly smooth geomerging is just as nice... layout is great... hill and flag seem really fun... weapon layout is sound... and im sure this map has been tested to perfection... i like the looks of things too... Nice Job on this... 5/5

 

I've been thinking about what to say to you in this thread for a fair few hours today, because I didn't know how to put it. I've come to the conclusion that I should just get something down, because a full essay doing this justice is out of reach for me today. Maybe an essay will happen anyway. You'll know what I'm getting at. Know that I truly do respect and admire you for your maturity and your ability. There is a certain level of critique that you cannot apply to the majority of maps or authors, but for yourself, if it is not done and I don't provide you with my thoughts I would be being deceitful and far less constructive. I think there are some things that should be said.

When I played here last, I didn't have many complaints. I recall the spawns were at a decent stage, maybe not final, but workable. The layout was very similar. I'm not going to comment on the map layout per se, however. That would be a whole other post and one that would be more complimentary yet detract from the pressing and (although perhaps not apparent) relevant point of this commentary.

I want to see more evidence of intentional design in both your posts and your maps. I am sure you placed many objects with intent, and the map works - but it is telling that you say you forged based around difficult merges; designed one part then moved to another working in cells; scrapped most of the map because it didn't work and took the bits that did as a base for the next wave of forging.

It should be apparent once you consider the situation that anyone with access to patient and decent testers should be able to run through this cycle of forging first, asking questions later. Anything good stays, the rest is replaced. Scrap the bad parts, forge the remainder. Repeat until the map works. Of course I'm exaggerating to make a point - this would be an incredibly long process and you are and were able to make many decisions to speed this process, minimising the trial and error that is inherent. But it's the same process any other forger of minimal skill could use to achieve a similar result.

On the technical side of things, with the placement, merging, interlocking and so on, you obviously have developed a robust set of skills. It's impressive and commendable. It sets you apart. But I would be concerned that a skill that is based on technique, dexterity and patience is defining your map's selling points. You promote them yourself in this project, and it's all anyone who replies talks about.

Let's say for example that you were creating this map with an editor that disabled its game physics. The vast majority do. Suddenly this map loses its apparent major selling point. As an objective observer that's how it is presented and what inspired the map in the first place - merging. Your priority is merging...?

Now I know you aren't a one trick pony and I'm labouring the point. It still stands however. It's actually irrelevant in my eyes whether the gameplay, flow and balance are good enough, because it is devalued by the statements you make in the OP.

Enough of that. These are my suggestions for your consideration both now and on a future project.

• Concept what the map should achieve before you even think about turning your 360 on. This is very relevant to Underbog, where you took a very modular approach to its construction. You should instead focus on the major goal of the map, and what you might need to pursue to achieve that. Secondary goal, requirements and the like need to be considered and worked through.
• Paper and pencil. Sketch shapes and paths that can work. Get down what is mandatory for the map; if there are likely to be any problems as a result; what you can do to resolve or minimise these issues - work them all through in your head, on paper, decide on the handful of concepts that can work. You're being abstract and focusing on the gameplay.
• Start to define a shape for alpha. Think about how each aspect will affect other areas and player choices as the #1 priority. Bring them together on paper. Forge is clunky and slow - there is no point wasting time creating something there and having it take a factor of one thousand times longer than your mind. If it's difficult to visualise, paper is still far quicker. You can spend so long in forge concepting it becomes a colossal waste of time to abandon what you have done and the end result is not what it could have been.
• Get sketchup. It's easy to use, quicker than forge by far, easily altered and you can view LOS, estimate player routes and analyse budget use. You can reference or even present these designs in your post as evidence of logical thought, and as a transparent and clear display of the superiority of your final design choices by the previous analysis of alternate design avenues.
• Forge alpha. It'll be quick and easy, because you'll have a 3D model of each placement. Analyse the post game carnage on bungie - analyse player death densities and kill locations.
• You know the rest.

Now maybe this is all obvious. But from your post, it seems as if merging is your top priority here, and I know you can do better. You've proved it before.

I guess this might seem quite unfair. The map works, and it's enjoyable. You did change up designs for parts of your map and brainstorm alternatives. But it still "sucked", as you say, so your design process isn't working as it should. You could be so much more efficient and output maps that have professional aspirations. You have the ability. But this follows in the very similar styles of Botanica and Ramparts. That's three maps in a row, and I think this map has suffered as a result, to whatever degree. I like it. But I don't like how you got there. Please, go back to your roots. Think how much you've improved - your technical skill is all that might be needed in Forge. But I think you need to be willing to experiment, and as a result, willing perhaps to occasionally fail with your maps and trust that your reputation will not be damaged - if people any had sense, it would be improved.

I know you can go out and make this kind of map day in day out. It has a commendable level of quality. But at some point it's going to get stale, and you need to push yourself in sophisticated directions for yourself and your map output as a whole, rather than this.

How satisfied are you? How satisfied could you have been?

Shoot for being the best.

x

 

holy **** im not even gonna bother quoting you shock
he does bring up a valid point tho
spending a good amount of time designing and sketching before you start to forge it is realy necesary from a map thats going to be on par with the best here at forgehub
ive spent 2 moths designing a map in my head and drawing it out(mainly cuz i have RRoD) and i can't even tell how much ive scratched and rehashed my map in my head
-this isnt pointed at just you Bl00d, but at the general community who will read the post above me

 

Lately, not many competitive maps have appealed to me, but Underbog did so I downloaded and played it and let me say aesthetically, this is some of your best work, in my opinion. I could only try FFAs because I never get big enough parties, and if I do they just want to play infection but anyway, FFA was a very enjoyable experience much like it was with Ramparts. Slayer was fun since I had a upper hand in know some of the weapon spawns but that upper hand slowly diminished since the weapons are pretty evenly balanced out, I picked up the sniper and had to quickly run to cover but found an enemy instead. In Slayer at the start of the match I spawned right beside an enemy, but when re - spawning that never happened so there might be some spawning issues to look into or revise, not sure if you want to but you could take a look-see. I'm guessing One Flag would play awesome with the tall structures you have placed in the corners of the maps and back middle, it would be very fast paced. I'm surprised to see a trip mine was included, not many competitive maps have them unless it's a BTB one but it wasn't too powerful since the map is quite open.

I'm glad to see that you still forge and just give up since you got into the higher ups since you make some of my favorite competitive maps.