The hosts are required to have all the featured maps that are playable, and then use their discretion as to which ones should be played in which order. So hope you have a party that knows the map... Otherwise at FHEAP for sure.
I don't have all of the maps prepared... I just don't have that kinda room... I'm using the site and picking the most popular on the fly and dl'ing them. Such as Depot, Citadel, Cat N' Mouse, Hobo Heights, etc...
I have to admit, This map isnt very interesting. There was alot to it, but there wasnt much to do afterwords. After the base gets beaten up. there isnt much you can do. Its fairly confusing, There are alot of places that can get you lost. And there is just to much flying all over the place. And I couldnt fing a great asortment of basic weapons like BR or Carbine. Theres just too much
Let me first say, that this map is absolutely amazing. It's not noob friendly, but it's a blast after a few rounds. I've always liked 1-sided objective fortress-style maps, and this blows all of other ones I've seen away. I just have a few questions/comments: 1. To get to the Rockets, I stood on the edge of the highest double box I could get to, jumped, and then jumped a second time by using the Trip Mine. I din't know if this was the correct way to access them...The Trip Mine didn't go off. It may be possible to use the Brute Shot or a grenade and the Grav Hammer to get to it but I couldn't get it to work. 2. Why the abundance of Spike Grenades? Everywhere I go, I always find a spike Grenade laying around lol. It doesn't bother me, I'm just wondering why they're there. 3. In my opinion, the map lacks weapons just lying around. When I first loaded the map, I expected the attackers' blue room to be loaded up with grenades and weapons. They don't have to be power weapons or anything, but I like the idea of the attackers "gearing up" for the assault. If there is enough forge money left over, I would suggest moving the attackers' Sniper and Shotgun to the armory and putting some weapons in there(duels come to mind). Something similar could be done for the defenders. Move the Sniper and maybe throw some duals in there with it. Rockets should always stay where they are(great placement BTW). I was thinking about weapons on the map and had an idea-If it's possible to put a BR and an AR(with instant respawns) on one weapon holder like you can with grenades, you could put a few of those around the Citadel as Ammo Stations. If that doesn't work, you could just do 2 weapon holders next to each other. They could go in between Territories so the attackers will have plenty of ammo to take the next one.. Just a random thought that could turn into something cool. 4. What if the defenders keep stopping the attackers from going down the Grav Hammer hole and preventing them from grabbing the firebombs? Maybe you could put a firebomb at the attackers' base that would spawn a couple of minutes into the game. Like the Sniper, it could help if they can't push through. 5. Have you thought of possibly expanding the map or making another map using the grav lift defense system? I'd like to see some other concepts using the same map idea. The Fuel Rod Gun and more hidden weapons caches come to mind. All in all, great map! I'd like to see more well thought-out maps like this one. 5 stars.
That is the point of the map... ? You can destroy the grav lifts Jason, then move through the shield doors. Overlord.. thanks so much for the great post. I'll reply to your points as you numbered them rather than quote the whole thing. 1. The rockets are hard to get to, but there is more than one way to retrieve them. Someone posted on B.net with a novel idea: Nade them down off their spot. But ultimately you're going to want to get up there with 'em so you can have the positional advantage. What I would say is that you have to be jumping forward much quicker than a regular jump that's being boosted upwards in whatever way. 2. Ah spike grenades. Here's my reasoning - When you spawn as an attacker there's an open space that works well for frag usage. There's only a single spike grenade in that area because I didn't want the turret to get stuck easily and become useless. (That's the same reasoning for the attackers sniper spawning 45 seconds in). But when you get into the base, spike grenades are more tactical because of the narrow corridors, and I didn't want a huge amount of frags going off because it would make the assault harder than it is presently. Besides you can pick up the odd frag from slain enemies. As for plasma nades I wanted the map aesthetic to be without too much plasma flying about, and they are too powerful. 3. I know what you mean about the lack of weapons. Unfortunately, I have $0 left in my budget. Now that the unlimited money glitch has been revealed, maybe I can go in and change something there. That's half the reason you start with BR and AR, the other reason being it's a competitive map, and BRs help that immensely. I rather like the placement of the defenders sniper right now actually. The problem with it is that you need your team to be set up well defending your left side so that the sniper can't be flanked on the stairs. Do that and you can pin them in until they snipe you back, or until you run empty. When I play I don't see many people using it if they are new to the map, and if half the team is new to the map then I don't see the sniper living long, but think of it as a long term plan - if people get very used to the map and play it competitively (which I hope is happening somewhere) then the defenders sniper becomes deadly in the hands of a skilled marksman, and can hold them off for a good 2 min of the round time. The mauler isn't used much by new players, nor is the back/side entrance (on the top floor of the Citadel). Going through there with mauler would be a great move, I really hope to see it more often in future. Also I'm not sure how many people use the plasma pistol, but down the narrow corridor paired with a BR is a good combination. If I was to go in and add weapons I'd probably put in another pair of SMGs on the sniper platform, a needler above the bubble shield in the defenders base, possibly a mauler at the bottom of the ninja drop into the courtyard, and in the attackers bubble shield room dual spikers, magnums and plasma rifles. BR and AR ammo doesn't seems to run out for me, considering you can pick it up from everyone dying around you. Have you had this problem? If I was to put in more weapons these would come at the bottom of the list, but if I had the money then why not put a few more in, I suppose. 4. Interesting idea. At the moment I see the defenders having a harder time though, but when people know the map the attackers can get pinned. Some people have had experiences where the defenders all go through the back and harass the attackers, but really if that happens an experienced team should win over their non-recharging shields and proceed to blow through the shields as the defenders regroup. Anyway, obviously you don't want a firebomb spawning at the start because the turret would be screwed (another thing that is powerful with a good team set up), but having it come in sometime into the game is interesting.. it's not something that can help that much however, as half the time you're killed before the fire kills them. Perhaps another brute shot spawning after 2 minutes? 5. I haven't thought of expanding the map because of budget, and probably wouldn't even if I glitched more money. I'm surprised other people haven't used the idea in their maps though, it's pretty cool and works well for base assaults. One-sided maps are hard to make balanced and fun for both teams, and this concept makes that process a bit easier for you by allowing the defenders to be powerful at the start, yet letting the attackers feel they are making progress, and rewarding them at points throughout the game, ultimately swinging the balance back towards the attackers. More weapons caches? I was worried about the rockets, as usually such things don't make for good gameplay at all, but they are relatively contained, hard to get to, and don't have any extra clips. Pulling the same thing off with a fuel rod with it's quick rate of fire would be very difficult, and I don't really know where I'd put them... hmm. Thanks for the comments dude, feel free to respond with anything you might have.
Thanks for replying to my post as well. 2. Ah spike grenades. Here's my reasoning - When you spawn as an attacker there's an open space that works well for frag usage. There's only a single spike grenade in that area because I didn't want the turret to get stuck easily and become useless. (That's the same reasoning for the attackers sniper spawning 45 seconds in). But when you get into the base, spike grenades are more tactical because of the narrow corridors, and I didn't want a huge amount of frags going off because it would make the assault harder than it is presently. Besides you can pick up the odd frag from slain enemies. As for plasma nades I wanted the map aesthetic to be without too much plasma flying about, and they are too powerful. Understandable. Plasma grenades would be too powerful in the tight quarters. 3. I know what you mean about the lack of weapons. Unfortunately, I have $0 left in my budget. Now that the unlimited money glitch has been revealed, maybe I can go in and change something there. That's half the reason you start with BR and AR, the other reason being it's a competitive map, and BRs help that immensely. More weapons would be great if you can use the money glitch. The one part of the map that's bugging me is the back of the Citadel. There's nothing back there besides some grenades and a bubble shield. I really like the platform with the spike grenade on it next to the wall/ramp for some reason. I could see a weapon or Active Camo here(speaking of power ups...). Power Ups-I think they could be a great addition to this map. I was thinking you could add an Overshield/Camo where the attackers are going to go. The power up could then spawn at the estimated time that the attackers could get there, so if it takes the attackers roughly 45 seconds to get there, spawn it in 45 seconds so the defenders can't rush it at the start of the game. I thought possibly moving the Gravity Hammer and spawning an Overshield halfway down the shaft could let an attacker fall in there and wreak havoc with a coordinated assault from his teammates. Also, spawning an Overshield/Active Camo far into the game could help the defenders if they are getting mowed through but haven't lost it quite yet. Like a last resort. I rather like the placement of the defenders sniper right now actually. The problem with it is that you need your team to be set up well defending your left side so that the sniper can't be flanked on the stairs. Do that and you can pin them in until they snipe you back, or until you run empty. When I play I don't see many people using it if they are new to the map, and if half the team is new to the map then I don't see the sniper living long, but think of it as a long term plan - if people get very used to the map and play it competitively (which I hope is happening somewhere) then the defenders sniper becomes deadly in the hands of a skilled marksman, and can hold them off for a good 2 min of the round time. The Sniper placement is good as is, you're right-you're always at risk of being double or triple teamed if you're on the turret or sniper platform. The mauler isn't used much by new players, nor is the back/side entrance (on the top floor of the Citadel). Going through there with mauler would be a great move, I really hope to see it more often in future. Also I'm not sure how many people use the plasma pistol, but down the narrow corridor paired with a BR is a good combination. Back to the weapons thing, if there was a power up or weapon there(or even plasma grenades) it could get more players to use that route. If I was to go in and add weapons I'd probably put in another pair of SMGs on the sniper platform, a needler above the bubble shield in the defenders base, possibly a mauler at the bottom of the ninja drop into the courtyard, and in the attackers bubble shield room dual spikers, magnums and plasma rifles. Sounds like a good idea. Again, that platform next to the wall that's being used as a ramp would be a good spot for a weapon/power up (Flamethrower anyone?) BR and AR ammo doesn't seems to run out for me, considering you can pick it up from everyone dying around you. Have you had this problem? If I was to put in more weapons these would come at the bottom of the list, but if I had the money then why not put a few more in, I suppose. To be honest,I only downloaded this map a few days ago and haven't gotten a chance to run games on it. Ammo probably wouldn't be a problem, but think about this-Ammo Stations would both make the defenders feel more at home and also make the attackers feel more secure as they move through the Citadel. Both adding to the aesthetic value. Anyway, obviously you don't want a firebomb spawning at the start because the turret would be screwed (another thing that is powerful with a good team set up), but having it come in sometime into the game is interesting.. it's not something that can help that much however, as half the time you're killed before the fire kills them. Perhaps another brute shot spawning after 2 minutes? A Brute Shot would work fine as well. Anything that would help the attackers get into the Citadel. 5. I haven't thought of expanding the map because of budget, and probably wouldn't even if I glitched more money. I'm surprised other people haven't used the idea in their maps though, it's pretty cool and works well for base assaults. One-sided maps are hard to make balanced and fun for both teams, and this concept makes that process a bit easier for you by allowing the defenders to be powerful at the start, yet letting the attackers feel they are making progress, and rewarding them at points throughout the game, ultimately swinging the balance back towards the attackers. They are hard to make, but you pulled it off. The good thing is that you could probably make an even better map based off of this one. More weapons caches? I was worried about the rockets, as usually such things don't make for good gameplay at all, but they are relatively contained, hard to get to, and don't have any extra clips. Pulling the same thing off with a fuel rod with it's quick rate of fire would be very difficult, and I don't really know where I'd put them... hmm. I mentioned this because nothing is more rewarding than working hard to get to a certain spot and obtaining a rare weapon/power up such as the Rockets(and using that weapon to kick some ass :squirrel_giggle. Multiple caches would increase replay value and fun, imo, but you don't want to overdo it so all people are trying to do is nade jump or whatever. I thought the Fuel Rod Gun would be a fun addition because 1. the shots bounce around corners which would be very effective in close quarters and 2. You just don't see it often enough. With no extra clips, it shouldn't be a problem. One last thing-I believe that it's possible to get out of the map by using the Brute Shot to get you on top of the highest boxes. Didn't know if you noticed this or not.
I was also Enjoying the Citadel on TGIFD... I think I only used the SmG once? and that was because I only found it once... Over all I have noticed that the Fight seemed to get held in the hallway then any where else. This was most true with the Lift...to the top floor... Seemed like you Camped there to kill us with the hammer... But over all I do enjoy the map... really good competive game play...what if you tryied to use the wasted space? I mean what if you had a Second court yard or garden?
It all seems a bit too..........complex. I understand the goal, and I applaud his ingenuity in the implementation, but the average LIVE player won't take the time to work it out.
I went through and deleted some objects to make some more room for weapons. Nothing vital was deleted, and the map should still play the same way, just with a few new toys: -Active Camo was added to the platform next to the wall ramp. Both teams can reach the Camo at roughly the same time after spawning, though the attacking team must use the Brute Shot to vault up over the wall at the top of the short stairs. 150 sec respawn -The firebomb in the back behind the stairs was moved to an open box underneath the wall ramp. It is now easier to find. -A Needler, SMGs, and other duals were put in where you wanted them to be. -A Fuel Rod Gun with no extra clips that doesn't respawn is in the cage in front of the defenders' sniper. -A Brute Shot that spawns 150 seconds into the game is in the attackers' armory -The Attackers' shotgun and sniper were also moved into the armory, and 2 plasma grenades(120 sec respawn) were added. -Some respawn points in the attackers' base were moved so the defenders cannot snipe them as soon as they spawn. Attackers can now only be sniped if they move out. -The Grav Hammer(no respawn) was moved to the back of the Citadel, behind the 3 window panels. the reasoning behind this is that attackers coming through might not turn around to see the dumpster and in turn will not see the Hammer. The defenders can use this as a last resort in case the attackers don't pick it up. It is barely visible from behind the second grav lift/shield. -In place of the Grav Hammer, a single Spike Grenade was added to take out the fusion coils. Also, an Overshield with a respawn time of 120 seconds was added about 3/4 down the chute. -The Plasma Pistol now doesn't respawn. Now the teams' weapons look like this: Attackers: Respawning Sniper rifle Shotgun Plasma Grenades Overshield Duals Brute Shot Bubble Shield Defenders: Fuel Rod Gun Sniper Rifle Grav Hammer Bubble Shield Trip Mine Plasma Pistol Turret Active Camo(I'm giving it to them because they can just walk to it) The defenders have better weapons. MUCH better weapons. Too bad most of them don't respawn. I'd say about 4-5 min into the game is when the **** hits the fan for the defenders. This weapon set up forces the defenders to be careful about how they use their weapons. I'd say the Plasma Grenades might need testing...Because of this, the turret might need to be able to respawn. Some Spike Grenades were removed but can be added back because I have 9$ left. I would like to see a Flamethrower somewhere if it wouldn't be too powerful, but all of the good spots have weapons already. If you took the time to read all of this, then please give me some feedback. Thanks. PS-I have an idea for a similar map. I suck at forging, so I'll run it by you and see if it's something you think would be worth building. I'll PM you.
first map ive played that confused the crap outta me... didnt know what to do, where to go. But eventually we understood the concept and its an awesome map. Great job
at first i was just runnin circles tryna find out what to do, but i since i got it me and my friends play it alot
Hey I downloaded this map after I saw in the best of 2007 overall and i loved it! This is a great map for Slayer, Team Slayer and 1 flag!