Lol, you're a fool. He was banned for a month because he lashed out at Nitrous for being ignorant, and then proceeded to move stuff around in the forum. He's been active on Halo, just not the site. Anyway, at the point the site is at right now ('neads moar intarloking') him coming back is an improvement.
Haha, I'm a fool? The way I see it the banning is worse than just being inactive lol. Anyways, take out my misunderstanding of why he wasn't active from what I said and you still have a perfectly good point,which is why you must have not commented on any of that. I'm not really into getting into a back and forth argument about this,just wanted to say that being cocky and flaming well known members that contribute positive things (unlike AZN appearently,Furious has never been banned) ain't going to gain you popularity. Even if you created a good gametype. P.S. Calling someone "a fool" isn't indicative to the way a moderator should act IMO.
I agree with most of the things you are talking about AZN, and how gameplay is a true art form in itself. How an overall balance is key. But to point out Furious in the way you did was bad form. He has made plenty of great maps that everybody loves. Having said this I would love to get in a few forge sessions with you AZN, I would like to see some of the new stuff you have created.
Neither is encouraging Titmar to act like he does, but we don't ever whine about the rest of the mods doing that, do we?
I apologize Ghost, I have a personal thing against Furious D, cuz he doesn't seem to understand the point of Forgehub and what makes a good forger... anyways... I would spread my new maps on here but they lack interlocking and the aesthetics that everyone here knows and loves. I normally sneak into TGIFs and we play some of the maps that I have. I'm sure a few of you have played Doom on Boiler Room, Fatties on a Rampage, Squads on Fool's Highway, Armored Core on Collapsed City, and Hot Potato. I'm helping Asper with some stuff for Boss Battle v2, I gave him the idea to make a new "Bonus Level" and where to do it along with some "additions"... it should be great when it's done. Anyways, Furious D has a few skills, but there is alot of theory that could really make his maps play better... And me popularity? lol... I don't need or want popularity over here. I'm trying to help renew conquest, cuz it is dieing due to some of the changes made to it. I am popular enough on Armored Core 4 and between all the original Forgehubbers... I need nothing more. And I didn't contribute positive things to the site huh? lol... you make me laugh... I taught many about the forging theories, and trained alot of the once known guilders. I helped those that needed help on their maps. And I was there to answer the forge discussion questions and clear things up in Forging 101s... you sir have obviously not been with FH since the beginning. I have been around since 1.0. I think I know what's been happening around these parts for a long while... and don't think I haven't keep my eye on things. I've contacted many old members to see how things are doing. I still look for the betterment of this community despite the steep slope downwards that it has obviously fallen into... AZN FTW
This may seem retarded but I think it would be quite amazing if AZN and Furious were to work together on a map. As you have said yourself AZN he incorporates stunning Aesthetic things into his maps while you would add amazing new gameplay. I just think it would be very cool. I still need to play Squads on Fool's Highway, Armored Core on Collapsed City and Hotpotato. Armored Core 4? I remember hearing you talk about this when I was in one of your TGIF Parties. I may just have to check this out.
At this point, the original topic is dead anyway. This discussion is all that's left XD Anyway: Dang AZN, bad showmanship. It's been said already, but I'll say it again, singling Furious out is ridiculous. He himself has said that a map is not all about interlocking and tedious techniques, so I would say perhaps not the best example for your rant? You are correct in a lot of what you said though. Too many people claim that a map is not good unless there is interlocking involved. This is, of course, blatant rubbish. But other things are somewhat less.. well, they're not so true. Yes, you created Conquest (I think... you did, right? I can't even remember it was so frigging long ago). And in doing so, you the gametype gained popularity. More Conquest maps were created, and over time, things changed. A map should not be taken, but a gametype, is a way of playing. Unique to a far lesser degree. The maps the gametype went with began changing as people began to use their own ideas and innovations to create something new, whilst simultaneously having a centralised theme. This allowed forgers something relatively unseen so far: The ability to be unique, yet conform to certain standards (the gametype) to result in something both new, and familiar enough to be instantly played and enjoyed. As the maps changed, whole new forms of play appeared (telerooms for example), giving even more to work with to the community. Whilst it may not have been what you originally intended, it's what happened. You said yourself, gameplay is important. Well there's gameplay for you, all wrapped up in a bow, with your name on it! (Whether or not this was before the following occurred is irrelevant. The point is, the game was already changing). With the maps themselves changing so rapidly, but the resulting games all being so uniform - Long, drawn out fights, repeating themselves endlessly - things needed change. A pioneer in the form of Furious was found. He was not the only one to make suggestions about Conquest, but he was the one who did the most work. I'm sure you will have seen his "My case against Conquest" thread? In it, he showed a number of statistics, and with well thought out arguments, made his case for the change from v1 to v2: The above choice ^^ to ignore Rick's stats could be a controversial matter (way to go Furious ), but I would remark that anyone who has performed statistical tests before knows to remove obvious anomalies. He went against the flow for both games. He also made the additional suggestion of changing the CPU so that, should they choose to do so, Forgers could include another element. I personally dislike the CPU, but as a matter of increasing options to allow for more interesting and varied gameplay throughout the series of maps, you yourself should be able to recognise the benefit. Forgehub in general agreed, and Conquest v2 was born. You have claimed that this is as bad as stealing a map, but I would argue otherwise. When you did not stop forgers from using your gametype for their own maps, you allowed them it. Then, as a collective of sorts, things changed. It was only natural that the gametype itself would eventually change. And now, a short interval: La la la lalalalala! Ahhh, I'm a funny guy Now, Furious has never gone on record to ever have claimed Conquest as his own creation. Nor did he attempt to radically redesign the game for his own purposes. What he did do is change the standards to increase general enjoyment. Had he gone a slightly different route and called it something else, people would have said "this is just like Conquest but with the settings a bit different" and done one of two things: Either they would ignore it as a rip-off, or they would play it regardless, leaving us in this situation once more. Instead, he gave reason, explanation and cause to his changes, and attempted to improve your work. People improve on each other's work all the time, and this way, credit was not taken for work that was not his. I think he did it the right way, but to be honest, there wasn't much choice. Before closing, I thought I would also look at your gametype, and your choices from my own unique point of view, as I feel it there are some things Furious has not said that should also be taken into account. Bear in mind that this is not personal criticism, but observations of minor flaws (in my opinion) in your argument. You said above that one of the main reasons for the lowered damage was to avoid players being lost and reducing the odds. Surely this is the point of Halo. Were all 4 players to be kept alive at all times, gameplay wouldn't even become a back and forth push, but a standstill. Getting shot in the face isn't a "mistake" that you should go unpunished for. It's not a mistake at all. It's part of the game. In the tight, rapid atmosphere of Conquest, getting a headshot on someone should be rewarded, not ignored. I've already addressed the topic of the telerooms and new map concepts, and to be honest, I think the only reason you dislike them is because your baby is growing up. I'm not going to say that you're just being selfish because that would be childish, and lack integrity. Besides, you've made an excellent point as to why they shouldn't be present. But they are, and this is because as time goes on, things change and get better. It might not seem like better to you, because you had your heart set on your original model. But to the rest of the community, these changes are an improvement. The changes in map layout are the same. Things may not be all corridors now and the territories may not touch each other, and hell, the game doesn't simulate war now in the way you wanted, but the game is popular. It has been the source for inspiration for many forgers, and it has been (on the most part) improved. My final point is that no-one is forcing you to play the new Conquests. The games are different, they just share a name. And even then, only because of their similarities. Furious could go out and rename his versions, and leave you with the one and only Conquest, but there would be no point, because he would still have Konquest or Conquistador or Flight of the Conquor or whatever the hell he called it, and it would still be Conquest. I guess what I'm trying to say is, you can keep your Conquest. You don't have to like this new one. But don't expect everyone to agree with you, and don't try to sit the whole of the "blame" on Furious.
Holy **** somebody get this guy a loyal rank rofl^ If you are returning AZN, leave the grudges and ego at the door for all our sakes.
That looks like credit to me.. i guess sorry he wasn't all omg azn made this uber cool game and its called conquest and it is leet and azn made it. You of all people should know why FH was created... TDF first made it to show off his own maps, then later expanded it so that community maps could be displayed. No serious forger adds aesthetics to his map until the rest is complete... Furious is no different. No one forges their map around tele-lights or any other bullshit like that... gameplay is ALWAYS first priority. When a person is brainstorming ideas and concepts for a new map.. no one thinks "omg if i has leet merging here it will be win." bullshit... doesnt happen. People focus on map design first, then deal with all that little stuff later. You are right though, interlocking doesn't take near as much skill as it does patience. But on that note... you can't deny that Side Longest would be better with interlocking. Bottom line is this: Interlocking is never required... but a map that could be interlocked, but isn't, is not reaching its fullest potential. If you can't see that then you're blind. You bunch all maps that look good into the play poorly category, which is bullshit. The real best forgers do both, not just one or the other. On a whole, AZN, that entire rant was pretty ridiculous. Add that to the whole terrorizing the forums resulting in a ban, and how ive seen you scream at kids like a 12 yr old over xblm on youtube firmly reinforces my thoughts of you as fairly immature.
First of all... I am all for the evolution of the gametype. I was all for upgrading SWAT, as I am all for upgrading Boss Battle, and probably a similiar version of ItS (In the Shadows). However the changes to Conquest are not relavent to an increase in gameplay status. Tele-rooms provide a means to create a one way street... you go in, you stay in. How often has that really worked in a competitive map? Not often at all... any player that goes into the tele room first thing ends up regretting they were ever there eventually. Tele rooms are great and innovative at first but degresses from gameplay. (Now I haven't seen a Conquest map with two-way tele-rooms.. that might work perfectly fine... but one way... definitely not). Now Conquest was not originally made to be a perfect standard gametype, same as SWAT. It would have later gone through heavy diagnosis into becoming a version of it's former self with little modification to the original purpose. Changing weapon damage makes the whole gametype different. You are rewarded with headshots in 75%... they have no shields and that is a MASSIVE advantage. Just because headshots was not a definitive factor does not mean they aren't used often. Most snipers can only get off one headshot and not successfully pull of the other, leaving their teammates to deal with the opponent at no shields... definitely a good thing. The exact same thing is true for melee, but the opposite. Just because the definitive for 75% resulted in melee, does not mean that it was more important throughout the rest of the damaging process. Melee proves that dual-wielding was highly utilized in 75%... which was a main focus of Conquest to put more focus on positioning and cover rather that the power of weapons. Anyone can get lucky with one headshot on a sniper rifle. Not many can get two consecutively. The focus is more on the team than on the lone wolf. In the new version, the lone wolf can headshot twice, grenade/BR, and then melee BR the 4 team members easily. He needs not his team. Instant death does not give the feel of what Conquest is. That is individual accomplishment... Conquest is seeking to reward team accomplishment. You get loads more satisfaction in the original conquest knowing that your team dominated because you worked well together and your battles are longer, more enjoyable, more tactical, and less random. Under regular damage rules in the new version, clearing a territory is not hard at all... rushing in by yourself is completely possible. The old version required communication between the team "Hey! Let me go first I have the bruteshot!" or "Stand back I'll cover you while you recharge from that headshot", or "I'll take dual plasmas and you take a magnum/SMG and headshot them when their shields are out". Teamwork is the focus on Conquest... what Furious has is a simpler version of Conquest and deserves its own classification. Furious D's version feels more like a regular but fast-paced territories and has no unique feel to it besides the map. Conquest feels unique from territories for a reason... regular territories can be done by yourself if you're good enough and have that little bit of luck. Conquest can't... I'm looking to better the gametype from what it is.. not here to increase popularity or downgrade anyone (however, I did take a few low blows to Furious D which I have already apologized for). Also Furious D and I have had our argument, all my statements for how he feels towards what Forgehub is what came of that argument. Yes a good forger can do both... I can do both, however I have not the time nor the patience to do both. And for those that have the patience I respect you. Now don't you dare bring Side Longest into this. It is not interlocked for a reason... no it would not be better if it was interlocked. However there are some current techniques that could fix a few things (like the Hang em High platform.. that thing is so old that we didn't have any "obvious" techniques to line it up back then). If the map was interlocked it would require more materials and many spaces would be smaller and less effective. Trust me... I had asper, reaper, riot, and lone soldier with me ALOT of the time... all 4 interlock and they understand why it isn't interlocked... and if you haven't notice the buildings are interlocked to the bare minimum to cover particular gaps for gameplay purposes. SO yes there is ALOT of interlocking in Side Longest, it's just not made to make unique looks and feels. It's used to fix gameplay and that is all. And if you went back to Forgehub 1.0 it said right on the front that the focus was for custom games... NOT maps. You guys put way too much focus in the maps, which is why all of you are attached to Foundry. Get creative and try one of the old maps. Lots of your guys ideas for games are great, but you restrict yourself to Foundry and don't open your mind. You fear that people will criticize for looks. A good example of this is Doom on the Boiler Room. It is one bunker in Isolation... and it works perfectly for it's gameplay. Yes you can recreate it in Foundry... that would be no fun and be classified as a horrible map due to the blandness of textures available (basically it's fun, but it's fun does not outweigh it's bland feel). Only in Isolation's red bunker room can you get that red environment to add to the intensity of the feel of the game. I have had a talk with a few people and lots of them would agree that a Conquest map would be great on Epitaph if done properly... I will probably put some effort into doing that and what I believe should be Conquest v4 and I will let you guys decide what you like. Foundry is bland... try some other maps guys.. it's good for the soul. You obviously don't know what happened behind the scenes in staff way back when. Yes my actions were immature.. (I'll admit the 8 of us had a BLAST... lol that was a great afternoon). I made sure everything I did was reversable. I was leaving, so I went with a bang. I'm not here to stay, I'm here to throw in my little bit as I take a short break from AC4 here and there. And you judge my maturity on that video? lol... I have my fun on XBL cuz that's what you do. It's a game folks. Everyone knows I do have fun, but I get serious when times need to be serious. You can ask anyone that I've forged with. I get really serious and I get agitated easily if we aren't on track. I don't know how many times I've kicked certain people for being a nuisance during one of my forging sessions. And Asper has learned to shut up at certain times as well. I act like I do to relieve stress and spice things up a bit. My TGIF parties were popular for a reason. I had fun when the time was appropriate, but when I had to ask for map requests and crap I made sure I got things done properly... if it required me to stop screwing around then so be it. Alot of the guilders were uptight about their rooms. There is no point to that when you can mod and have fun at the same time. And on the point of the way you guys build maps. I'm sure there are alot of featured maps that lack gameplay originality. Aesthetic originality exists EVERYWHERE. You can have an orginal new map with a familiar gametype like FFA slayer. But it has to have something that makes it truly different from the rest. Look at Labyrinth... it has more twists and turn than most maps to date. It is still unique in it's gameplay. Look at Lockout, Blackout, and Guardian. All have similiar layouts, but have a unique element that makes them play different from the rest (like Lockouts steepness of ramps compared to Blackout, or Guardians use of Grav Lifts). Get creative folks... don't be afraid to be different, but make sure it is well done different. Releasing Side Longest next to a bunch of interlocked maps was tough. But it still pulls of BTB on Foundry with vehicles better than any other Foundry map to date. That's its unique gameplay. It also displays Path Manipulation Theory to it's fullest to create different routes that make the map feel larger than it actually is. Same with Labyrinth. I wish we had more objects for Side Longest, cuz the map still feels smaller than it should be. But it works for what we were given. I'm off to bed I will rebut more tomorrow if I deem appropriate. Good night FH... AZN FTW
What!? AZN, are you trying to say that Halo isn't just a game!? Seriously though, most of the people on this site take Halo way too seriously. There's a reason why TGIFs held by AZN, and I are always full, not only that but they usually last much longer then the set times. Something very few people can say, wanna know why...? It's because we have fun, we don't play thirty overly interlocked competitive maps back to back, nor do we monitor our party; yelling at people who are too loud, and the like (I've seen it happen, I'm not going to use any names...). We play what's fun: 'Fatties' on 'a rampage', 'Tremor Valley', 'The swings', etc.. What the party wants to play. Lights, before you start saying **** about the 'AZN indecent' read the thread. It deals with EXACTLY what we're talking about now. You all seem to have forgotten the this is a game. Criticizing AZN because he likes to have fun on a game is just silly. We build fun, not a whole new level. Forge was not made to be a level designer, I'm not saying that It can't be used to make a whole new level, but It wasn't made to. It doesn't have the kind of stuff to be focused on actually designing a level (Snap tools, less limitations, the like). So typically using it as that takes way too much time, time that most people don't have to play a video game, and the outcome is usually far from fun. You could spend 35+ hours on a crazy map full of gimmick interlocks, and once you're done you can play it for a game then get bored of it. OR you could spend 8 hours on a creative map, and game type that people beg to play. I'll end this mini rant with the following: -Asper
Nope. I haven't released it yet (good memory with the name, Iv0rY). It's ready I guess, but I kind of wanted to get in one last test just to make sure it played the way I wanted it to. Since I can't seem to have a steady schedule, releasing it and the other two non-Conquest maps I have ready seems like a pipe dream. On to the debate at hand about Conquest. AZN, you might want to take the updating of the gametype as a compliment rather than an insult to you and your creation. There are a lot of people here who really enjoy the game, and thought that making some tweaks, especially to the custom powerup, could add a whole new dimension to the way the maps could be formed around it. Let me repeat that again: a whole new dimension to the way the maps could be formed around it. Isn't that what you've championed from the start? Creating a gametype and evolving an existing map to make the most out of it? That's all that was intended in this case, so there's no need come off so defensive. I'll be really interested to see how your updates to Conquest turn out. Just do it soon, because I want to see if it works on Concussion (not on Foundry, ha!), lol.
Yeah, it's a game. Yeah, it's meant to be played for fun. That's all fine and dandy, but if you think this site would be half of what it is today if Foundry didn't exist you would be kidding yourself. Bungie created Forge as a level modification tool,yes, but they knew from the second they came up with the idea for Foundry that it would be used to create custom levels. Why else would they allow all items to be removed and replaced? Why else would there be so many Boxes, Double Boxes, Bridges, and Walls? Why else would it be square and perfectly flat? Ever notice that people don't build much in the way of custom geometry on bumpy uneven levels? Most of the good custom geometry is built in the air. And when there is stuff on the ground it just looks plain ugly most of the time. This also begs the question of why doesn't Bungie make another Foundry-ish level? I would be willing to bet that in less than a year from now we will be building custom levels on a bigger better Foundry like level because Bungie sees how popular Foundry is and like anything that is good, it could be better. Is it bland? Yeah, a bit. But is it still fun? 100% yes. So really, what you say can be percieved as truth when twisted a certain way, but in the end this site is what it is because of Foundry and the maps and gametypes we make on it.
Half of what it is? Are you referring to the army of members who spam and serve absolutely no purpose other then just being annoying? or are you talking about the millions of maps that all look and play the same in the Forge Map section? Maybe you weren't around before the release of the DLC, but we were fine back then. Hell, we were fine even when the foundry was released, until everyone started thinking too much of Interlocking. Now the map section has just spiraled down into a overly interlocked mess of unoriginal maps. Maybe it's just me, but I haven't seen a fun featured map since The Lost Chamber, well besides maybe Flying saucers. Much less in the Map section. Actually this site is what it is because people like AZN, Truedark, etc. could create games that people actually wanted to play again, and again. Please refer back to when people could come up with creative, and fun games, thank you.
I'd have to agree with that assessment. I'm quite sure there are still some good ones out there *cough*Gridlocked*cough*, but they are so smothered by the others that you speak of that I don't peruse that section of the forums as much as I used to or even venture to DL maps by newer members. I just stick to the authors that I know make good stuff and grimace at all the others.
I have to admit, I'm inclined to agree on the most part, but there are still a number of maps released that at least deserve a look. A lot of the maps forums though, are being consumed by "MLG Almost-exactly-same-as-that-other-guy-did v3.2" and "Big 1-sided fort v8". But I still find it beneficial to browse the map forums, because occasionally, you might just find that little scrap of gold. That disappoints me to be honest. Admittedly, a lot of maps aren't worth a download, but to ignore a member just because he/she is new? We see a lot of maps from the well known forgers, but I'm positive there is a lot of untapped talent out there. In fact, to try and find some of it, I'd like to make the suggestion that each of you reading this goes and looks through the Competitive and Casual maps sections. You might not find a single thing worth looking at, but it's entirely possible that you'll find the next big name lurking in amongst all the crap. Oh, and AZN, I look forward to seeing Conquest v4; Change is good
What about Teamwerks? Brute Burnout? Rainbow Snipers (old name)? I've seen about 8 completely original and, ZOMFG, FUNZORZ map/gametypes come out in the past 2 weeks. To me, this site isn't about maps or gametypes or people or anything else. It's about keeping an otherwise stale game interesting and fresh. Furious' conquest upgrades and all the non-traditional conquest maps helped greatly in that respect (The way Swordscar's Deterioration flows is stark genius). And this site is still keeping it fresh if you know where to look... despite the large number of clone maps out there. Suggesting otherwise is foolish and shows great laziness. *Thanks god for his new home* Oh, and videogame theory... really? Get a job, dude. EDIT: good point about the spending 8 hours on an original gametype that'll be original and fun, though... that's the direction I'm heading.
Good point, but these are just a few great maps going against a tidal wave of unoriginality. Oh well, I guess we'll just have to enjoy what we have and let the dull maps die (that is, if the damn spammers would stop bumping them back up...). Who's that directed at?