I'm not letting you off the hook that easily, articulate why all three of them arn't "viable", back your claims up. Explain why a "square" shape of a map is always neccecarily bad
"Letting me off the hook". Lmao. Look - I have nothing left to prove here man. I've played my part, have plenty of maps under my belt, and given my design perspective to those who ask of it for years. I'm an open book to anyone who would just ask. When I give my opinion on a map you've got to believe that it's because I actually believe what I'm saying, and not to compare e-****. If this is the part where you burst into some asinine tangent about your objectivity (if you can call it that) then let me know and I'll stop here. I'm not really interested in entering a formal debate with you about the credibility of you as a designer, especially when you're quick to discredit anything through whatever ridiculous debate tactic comes to mind (referring to your bit about Riptide being objectively good looking - it's not, to anyone with eyes). But if you actually want my complete unfiltered and honest opinion here it is. I've never played or looked at Space Junk so whatever. Northern Darkness is quite literally a square. And before the inevitable "what's wrong with a square?" it depends on how literally we're taking that word. I could call a lot of maps a square - The Pit, Adrift, Midship. These could all fit the definition to varying degrees of square (or donut, in this case interchangeable). Northern Darkness however, is actually a square. When I judge a design I look for 2 big things at a primitive level; opportunity to promote mental play, and integrity in mechanical play. Northern Darkness is verging on the territory of being an octagon with cover pieces. Any corner I choose to sit on can view both runways in my peripheral. That means the moment I pinpoint the enemy, I know if they're not running towards me, they're running the opposite direction. And that's basically where the mental play ends; there are some subtle (and I mean subtle) nuances that come into play with the cut-through's in the center pit and the higher points but they are all but negligible in the grand scheme of what I need to look out for in moment to moment 1v1's. Mechanically the map is a mixed bag. The scaling is as good as they come but that's about where my praise ends for that end, considering the rest of the map is comprised of runways and abstract cover pieces thrown just about everywhere. And given Halo's cover combat (or lack there of) it's hardly a "skill" I find endearing in a duel. This isn't Gears of War, these fights end up with players spaz crouching in and out of a crate-piece to duck shots which I personally find elementary and unrepresentative of ACTUAL Halo combat. There's a lot of good to be done with mechanical play in duel's especially when you have a distinct lack of team pressure on you and a much greater freedom for movement. That sort of thing should be capitalized on in a 1v1 map by providing interesting movement options that don't involve jungle-gyming with clamber so much as actual repositioning in combat. Your large scale design (a square) prevents that from manifesting because, surprise! 4 runways in a grid. I've never once felt that Northern Darkness 1: gave me the chance to outsmart my opponent because the design is so primitive and pathing predictable. And 2: Let me outplay my opponent by manipulating sightlines OR by challenging my movement skill. I'd give it a 4/10 on a good day for the design, more likely a 3. The art/forging is better though, probably a 7 on that end. As for Bloodlet Throne; as the foremost expert on key maps (lulz) - Of the 3 actual published, and working, key maps Bloodlet Throne is the worst, trailing behind Red Death. Which isn't necessarily even an insult because the genre is relatively unexplored and difficult to pull off in the first place. For clarification - your key paths on BT are all but negligible. They offer practically no combat advantage (some I'd argue are actually a disadvantage in all ways but element of surprise), they are horribly committing to the point where I don't even feel right using them, and they are relatively predefined as far as a player's ability to use these options creatively. Even in terms of travel times the key doors hardly provide an advantage worth pursuing, and more often than not just burns the key player's thrust in the process and then sentences them to death in the following combat sequence. When I designed Arcanum I took every imaginable precaution to make sure the key player was a force to be reckoned with, with travel times, safety, predictability, weapon access, escapability - and many times players still opt to ignore the Bridge/Dead Hall key because they don't deem it worth the risk. Whether that's true, I don't agree. But my point is you have to overcompensate when you're creating a map advantage as subtle and non influential as a door. You didn't. The doors do all but nothing on Bloodlet Throne and an evenly matched team probably wouldn't have to put more than an ounce of extra effort into fighting against a key player with the pathing you've provided. It's just non consequential to completely ignore it. And this doesn't go to mention just the general issues I have outside the door utility. Most of your doors are located on a strip of geo so narrow that you proc it whether or not it was intentional and burn a key charge. Any combat in the central division ends up being a complete cluster**** in the smaller towers which pushes pretty much every encounter towards the throne room because why tf would I ever fight in the terrain section. And while this is actually a completely personal and subjective complaint that you're free to ignore, I PERSONALLY find all the encounters to be under-par. To me it's firing through my doorway into your doorway with just about nonexistent vertical encounters or sight line manipulation. I don't find the map enjoyable to play with, or without the key for that reason. It's geometrically fairly uninspired. If I were to give it my mental/mechanical test, it'd probably get a D in either category. Again, your art direction is the stronger leg of this map as I think you've got a really good theme and environmental pieces. But the mental/mechanical test is just the bare bones credentials I look for in a quality design, there's so much more there that you're missing and probably haven't even begun to consider that I won't even break into it. Thing is there's no shame in that map having issues because it's a pretty difficult map element to work around. I recognize that, the problem is you don't. While it's completely possible that you've been trolling us I'm inclined to believe from every conversation I've had with you be it here, or over mic, that you're completely serious about your claims as a designer. To which I would say, you either need to take a step back and reassess your skills (and perspective) or man the **** up and make something actually impressive. Because space junk and Bloodlet Throne are not that old and if you're telling me that you've actually superseded your design prowess in that time (which is totally possible) then make something to prove it. Because as it stands I don't believe you're even in the top 10 as far as current forgers go and there aren't even many quality forgers man. Hell I've already reached out to who I believe are the cream of the crop, top dog, design gods of the forge community to work with me on a project that I can't do on my own and if I'm speaking with complete transparency here - with every conversation we've taken to expand our team you haven't once come up as a possibility for consideration. And I don't mean this as a slight because credit where it's due, you have improved remarkably quickly considering (unless I'm mistaken) you began level design in Halo 5. With your current trajectory I have no doubt you'll come up with some incredible stuff at some point, but until then you need to keep on climbing and seeking help where you think need it; and even more importantly, where you don't think you need it. And one final word of advice; take it from the guy who's spent the past 10 years here as a complete asshole (mostly merited, sometimes not) and had a job offer pulled for internet posts - change your tune. Your whole persona has ascended so far beyond snarky ignorance that it's just annoying to communicate with you through text at this point. Know when to be an ass and when to be level. You are not, the best designer on Forgehub right now, and probably won't be for quite a while. And if you tell me that it's not pride but truth one more time I will punch you through your webcam. The big difference here between you and I (as the proclaimed egomaniac here) is that despite all that I've accomplished I have never once felt the need to proclaim myself as the best the way you have - not here in text, nor over the mic, nor in person, and I never would. Whether we're talking small scale forger drama or breaking into the professional field of level design no one here has more right to brag than I do, but the fact is even IF I or anyone genuinely believed themselves the best at anything, you shouldn't have to say it. You should let others do the talking, and if no one recognizes your genius then have the integrity to leave it at that. There's a proverb that would fit nicely here but I trust you can fill in the blank.
Says he's not interested in egaging in a formal debate with me and then continues to write an essay, lol "especially when you're quick to discredit anything through whatever ridiculous debate tactic comes to mind (referring to your bit about Riptide being objectively good looking - it's not, to anyone with eyes)." Low hanging fruit argument. I though you went to school for this stuff man i shouldn't have to school you on falacious arguments 101. It's because you've gotten too comfortable in your echo chamber I'll dismantle the rest of your arguments later, at work atm
I'd test and tweak things as you go, but the castle being way stronger than outside is the point of the map surely? I think it's a design that could really nail that heavily asymmetric attack/defend dynamic that made maps like Damnation and Prisoner interesting.
The point of that example was that you tried debating an art style as objectively superior by citing colors. It was one of the most idiotic and non-reasoned things I've ever read. And then told us we were in an echo chamber for disagreeing with you for saying an art style was objectively good. Not only was it subjectively stupid but it was objectively wrong to define "good" with a color pallet. If we're going to be pricks, you literally just took the most irrelevant line of my post and pegged it as a Cherry Picking fallacy. Which is quite literally, you committing a cherry picking fallacy. This is why no one likes you.
If someone agrees with Soldat that he is the best designer on Forgehub please leave your name so I can block you.
But it's realistic Multi! Spartans should be able to run, just as keys shouldn't be that much of an advantage. Why would a key, a tool to unlock/lock doors, be so capable of turning the tide of a battle? You write well but ultimately it's clear you have no idea what you are talking about if you think that Spartans would use keys to win fights. Edit- All this reminds me, I haven't shared anything in ages. Might try and finish stuff for once.
I was all with you here multi till you blew it on the last paragraph with the good old I'll never say I'm the best/boast like you while basically saying you were and saying why no one has more right to brag than you. Sure you do have more right to brag than Soldat, certainly far more than me, but your ego is just as inflated (well maybe not quite) and you're not even trolling. Why does everyone in this forum think they're basically god? Yes, actions speak louder than words, but you should watch you mouth sometimes...
Well that was sort of my point. As someone who people like to peg as egotistical (like you just did) I've never once felt the urge to quite literally make that claim that I'm the greatest. I was speaking towards my reputation as an egomaniac, not my self image which I promise is much different (but who doesn't view themselves as humble). For the sake of clarity let me rephrase. I don't think I'm the greatest. IF I did, I would have the credentials to back it - and I STILL wouldn't make the claim. Because it's desperate and tacky and provocative. You can choose to believe my perspective of myself or not, but that was the intention behind the final paragraph. If it came off snarkier, oh well. I'd edit to show truer intention but there's already quotes.
Even if I managed to lessen the focus of the top paths, it still would become the choke point map that it is now. I'm going to attempt spawn changes to it, but I'm prolly moving on to continue with my self given goal of making a castle in every Forge canvas. I'm hoping I don't end up making the same map idea over and over, because I'm literally making every single castle out of nowhere; no top downs, no weapon layouts besides like one main weapon, etc. Like, the fact that I managed to make Lonesome Fort have some method of attack/defend design was mostly subconscious until I figured out how to make the pathing connect (albeit awkwardly). This goal I made showed up because castles in and of themselves are one of the most flexible things in game design. You can make a scaffold of stone and wood atop a peak, with no rails or safety. You can have humongous torches lighting up one hallway, with no need of explanation of how it's burning. You can make magic ****, zombie ****, necromicon lookin' ****, elf and orc ****, Quake ****, whatever. And that's cool to me now, so I'm seeing what my brain will come up with next. I want this creative flow to last as long as possible, until I'm done. Never in my life have I wanted to do a project more than this one, and I'm wondering to myself "Okay, cool dude, but can you do it?" My answer, right now, is "**** yeah."
MLG CERKUL JURK V2 All my opinion based off of what I've seen (released or unreleased) or how they work in collaborations. Honorable mentions are people I can't "rank". Top 10 Level Designers - Most likely to make a good playing map Sethiroth (grizzled ancient) SaltyKoalaBear Purely Fat a Chunk MultiLockOn Xandrith Given To Fly Demption Sgt Slaphead Career 45 Honorable Mentions: Chronmeister, Ace of Spades, Solo XIII, Box Knows, Brotastic Bear, Certified Champ, Xzamplez, A 3 Legged Goat, Secret Schnitzel, Squally Dabeanz, Blaze, Itz Longshot Top 10 Visionary - Most innovative and ambitious level designers MultiLockOn (invislock says it all tbh) SaltyKoalaBear Xandrith A 3 Legged Goat Given To Fly Icyhotspartin LargerFiend Demption Purely Fat Honorable Mentions: Chronmiester, Itz Longshot, Yeti For Hire, Buddy Jumps Top 10 Theme Design - creating a unique and believable environment A 3 Legged Goat (this is why i don't finish anything) SaltyKoalaBear Given To Fly WeedCough Commander Colson LargerFiend MultiLockOn Ryley WyvernZu Sethiroth Honorable Mention: Darkskull, Buddy Jumps, Xandrith, Negative Zero, Squally Dabeanz, Sikimicanico, Itz Longshot, Partarar, MartianMallCop, MrDeliciousMan, Yekkou, SHIFTY time, Ascend Hyperion Top 10 Artists - composition, lighting, and color theory A 3 Legged Goat (i'm the GOAT fight me) SaltyKoalaBear MultiLockOn LargerFiend Given To Fly WeedCough WyvernZu Sethiroth Demption Sikimikanico Top 10 Technically Skilled Forgers - efficiency and cleanliness SaltyKoalaBear (he's actually insane) Sethiroth LargerFiend SoloXIII Given To Fly A 3 Legged Goat Demption WeedCough Career 45 Buddy Jumps Honorable Mentions: Kell of Scots, Mynx, Xandrith Top 10 Kitbashers - using pieces in creative ways Given To Fly (because he uses more than three objects) A 3 Legged Goat LargerFiend WyvernZu SaltyKoalaBear WeedCough Commander Colson Ryley No God Anywhere MultiLockOn Honorable Mentions: Yekkou Top 10 Scripters - wizards Exterrestrial (he makes bitches fly) WyvernZu MartianMallCop (someone who I can't remember who belongs here) Max Extra Buddy Jumps Overall Best Halo 5 Forger: SaltyKoalaBear Overall Best Halo 5 Designer: Sethiroth Overall Best Artist: A 3 Legged Goat Forger Most Likely to Improve: LargerFiend Most Underrated Forger: Certified Champ So ya if you aren't up here post something
I wasn't cherry picking, i told you i would adress the rest after i got off work didn't I? While I am truly convinced that i have the deepest understanding of design, i agree that flaunting around oneself as being the best is distastefull wether they are the best or not. But like i said before if i had to put /s at the end of every post i was being trolly about it wouldn't be nearly as fun around here. Waywo has always been about shitpisting. And anyone who has ever spoken with me outside of forgehub knows i'm actualy very humble and not nearly as goofy. You and xandrith where the only ones who actualy got offended as if it was blasphemy while everyone else just laughed it off. Still to this day the two of you continue to bring it up as if it's eating away in the back of your head Anyways i agree with alot of your points on my maps. Except your whole argument about ND being a square and being able to keep all the players options within FOV isn't a big deal. Not being able to completely flank your enemy isn't as important as making sure the options they DO have available are viable. Positioning is important if you take rockets and DB into account, similar to damnation the pick ups play a vital role. You don't have alot of time to retrieve the assets which puts an emphasis on positioning yourself so that you can grab them right after a kill, and even then the respawning player has time to prepare. Also the map flows realy well, the skinny beams above the map encourage pushing while still giving the enemy a change to make a counter play. As for BT most of your points where about the key. One thing you may not realise about the key mechanic is that it's greatest utility is not the re-positioning aspect but instead Is overshadowed by the ability to completely disapear (get out of jail free) and to farm the map. My intent with BT was to specifically nerf these two aspects by making 2 one way doors and allowing players to shoot through 2 of the doors, while maintaining it's re-position & push ability. I think the main problem was with how disproportionate the risk to grab the key was and not neccecarily that the doors aren't useful
In other news there's an indoor map i've been wanting to make but I feel like it's supposed to be a campaign space or a Firefight map. Can't think of a way to make it a competitive map